£4500 gas bill £2000 electric at new rental property!

goldie2506

Any help would greatly be appriciated.... in November 2019 I moved into a new build conversion property. Its a 3 bed appartment over around 2000 sq ft. It is a grand older property which has been converted into flats and I am the first occupier of this property since it has been built. It seemed the developers (who are my landlord) had good intentions with their luxury finishes but their heating system is so complicated and messed up. A mix of ac, underfloor heating, underfloor heaters and radiators. Since moving in we had a month where we couldnt get the property above 10 degrees and another point where it was at 30 degrees for over a month and we felt very ill! Anyway, asides from lockdown the house is only occupied in the evening when I am home from work and the children are home from school. Cooker is electric. We are quite sensible and have never had a dual bill over £1500 per annum for similar sized properties. So my estimated annual bill for gas with SEE is £4535 and for electric £2148 - This is multiplying my 6 month readings by two. I have never had any of the radiators on except my bathroom towel one. The floor heaters we cant turn off. They are just three grids in the living room about 1m long and 15cm wide and built into the floor covered in metal grids. 
My neighbour who owns their property in the building said their bill was £3000 for the year for gas. Apparently the landlord also had high bills for properties in the building that are empty.
Where do i stand with my landlord? I have requested the epc. These are beyond the realm of reasonable. When I asked the landlord he said to make sure I was on the right tarrif!!!
There are just the three of us. ( 1 adult two children). 

Cardew

Are you paying for the whole building? A serious question! Sometimes happens with converted buildings.

The fact that other flats also have bills doesn't mean that the Gas/Electricity doesn't initially pass through your meters.

MWT

Just as a starting point, are your bills based on actual readings that you have provided from the meters or are they estimates?

Also for clarity, you mentioned 'A mix of ac, underfloor heating, underfloor heaters and radiators' when you say 'ac' are you actually talking about a heat pump? ... and the radiators, these are 'wet' and fed from a gas boiler presumably?

The underfloor heating that you 'can't turn off' should have a thermostat somewhere...

I'm wondering if what you have there is an ASHP, but perhaps you can help with the model numbers of any equipment you can see around the property?

It sounds like you have all the right pieces there, but unless it is all set correctly your power usage will be excessive, but even so I'd expect to see that on the electric side and it is your gas that is completely crazy, so there may be something more fundamental wrong there with the meter readings (and do check that your bill matches the meter number on your meter).

Gerry1

Forget all the estimates and projections, lots of basic facts are missing here.

• You can't expect the cost of two winters to reflect annual usage, i.e. one winter plus one summer.
• You can turn off the underfloor mats heaters, find out how.  They are the most expensive heating you can possibly have; they make very little sense in the winter and it's absolute madness to have them on in the summer.  Don't let ignorance bankrupt you !
  
• Did you read the meters when you moved in and then send monthly readings? 
  
• What are the name of your tariffs and what are the rates and daily charges?
• What type are are the radiators, and what powers them?  If they're electric they will always be very expensive.
• What are you using gas for?  Presumably you have gas central heating, so why are you using any electric heating at all, considering it's 4 or 5 times as expensive?
  

BTW, when you don't respond to queries, it's hard to offer meaningful advice !

goldie2506

Gerry1 said:

Forget all the estimates and projections, lots of basic facts are missing here.

• You can't expect the cost of two winters to reflect annual usage, i.e. one winter plus one summer.
• You can turn off the underfloor mats heaters, find out how.  They are the most expensive heating you can possibly have; they make very little sense in the winter and it's absolute madness to have them on in the summer.  Don't let ignorance bankrupt you !
  
• Did you read the meters when you moved in and then send monthly readings? 
  
• What are the name of your tariffs and what are the rates and daily charges?
• What type are are the radiators, and what powers them?  If they're electric they will always be very expensive.
• What are you using gas for?  Presumably you have gas central heating, so why are you using any electric heating at all, considering it's 4 or 5 times as expensive?
  

BTW, when you don't respond to queries, it's hard to offer meaningful advice !

Thank you for all replies.
To clarify. Based on actual readings - so I have paid £80 a month on dd for Gas since I moved in and its £2k in debit (i moved in 6 months ago), electric is £1k in debit and . And to reitterate I had no heating at all for at least a month over the winter.
The underfloor heating is turned off. Its the 3 under floor radiators (1m x 15cm) that cant be turned off unless you turn the boiler off. 
Gas is only used for water / heating. 

MWT

Just focus on the gas for the moment as that seems to be the one that is wildly out of control...

You are either paying at least 3x the going rate for gas, or you were managing to consume it at an unbelievable rate, so lets get that one clear first, how much are you paying per kWh for your gas and what is the daily standing charge?

goldie2506

The gas is 3.78p per kwh and 29.8p a day standing charge  

Gerry1

goldie2506 said:

The underfloor heating is turned off. Its the 3 under floor radiators (1m x 15cm) that cant be turned off unless you turn the boiler off. 
Gas is only used for water / heating.

If the underfloor heating is anything like this,

it should never be used because it will use full price electricity costing perhaps 12  - 15p/kWh or even more.  It should never have been installed in a property with gas.  Gas can cost than 2.5p/kWh.

If you have wet gas underfloor radiators that's not so bad, but it should always be possible to switch them off and still have the boiler provide hot water.  You urgently need to find out how to 'drive' your system.

• Once again, what are the name of your tariffs and what are the rates and daily charges?
• Photos of your meters showing today's readings would be helpful.
  

MWT

goldie2506 said:

The gas is 3.78p per kwh and 29.8p a day standing charge  

Depending on which part of the country you are in that is very expensive but 'only' about 50-75% more expensive than it should be so not accounting for the whole of your gas cost problem.

Are you currently taking daily meter readings?

By this week you should be using gas only for water heating I would have thought, or are you still using heating in the house?

How have you got the water heating set up? ... do you have it on constantly and controlled by a cylinder thermostat or are you having it come on for a few hours in the morning and evening?

The interest here is to see if the daily metered usage makes sense in terms of what should be quite minimum consumption.

For example we will typically consume less than 11kWh of gas a day just for hot water so 1 cubic metre or less, but in winter that might go up to 7 cubic metres or so when the heating is on (5 bed property, good insulation and double glazing).

goldie2506

Gerry1 said:

goldie2506 said:

The underfloor heating is turned off. Its the 3 under floor radiators (1m x 15cm) that cant be turned off unless you turn the boiler off. 
Gas is only used for water / heating.

If the underfloor heating is anything like this,

it should never be used because it will use full price electricity costing perhaps 12  - 15p/kWh or even more.  It should never have been installed in a property with gas.  Gas can cost than 2.5p/kWh.

If you have wet gas underfloor radiators that's not so bad, but it should always be possible to switch them off and still have the boiler provide hot water.  You urgently need to find out how to 'drive' your system.

• Once again, what are the name of your tariffs and what are the rates and daily charges?
• Photos of your meters showing today's readings would be helpful.
  

Gerry1 said:

goldie2506 said:

The underfloor heating is turned off. Its the 3 under floor radiators (1m x 15cm) that cant be turned off unless you turn the boiler off. 
Gas is only used for water / heating.

If the underfloor heating is anything like this,

it should never be used because it will use full price electricity costing perhaps 12  - 15p/kWh or even more.  It should never have been installed in a property with gas.  Gas can cost than 2.5p/kWh.

If you have wet gas underfloor radiators that's not so bad, but it should always be possible to switch them off and still have the boiler provide hot water.  You urgently need to find out how to 'drive' your system.

• Once again, what are the name of your tariffs and what are the rates and daily charges?
• Photos of your meters showing today's readings would be helpful.
  

Hi Gary
I had the property (which i rent) after the flooring was installed so I dont know whats underneath
The gas is 3.78p per kwh and 29.8p a day standing charge  as i` put in an above post, on an evergreen tarrif. I dont have the electric tarif details to hand. Nor do I have photos from today of the meter readings. I have been taking them regularly and keeping a record of them. 

Gerry1

That gas tariff is daylight robbery; for comparison I'm paying 2.370p per kWh, 17.29p per day. You still haven't told us the name of the company, nor the exact tariff.  I wonder whether the landlord gets a commission?

You could be misreading the meter(s), that's why photos would help.