Want to clone VERY OLD & VERY IMPORTANT HDD But scared

arrallas

If your old hdd is sata, you could use something like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301339411431 . You don't need to connect it to a computer to clone - just put the source hdd in bay 1 and the ssd (which must be equal or larger in capacity) in bay 2. Press clone. I have used one similar to this successfully many times and at the end of it, you have an external drive which you can populate with any spare drives for backup images, etc. Your old drive could well have a pata interface with a wide ribbon cable, in which case a software solution might be the only (risky!) way. I would then leave it to a professional!

Heedtheadvice

I have been in similar situations and on machines that do not run dos!

There are several options:

to clone the drive  so that you have a full copy;

to copy off any partitions if there are any individually:

Copy files/folders.

All more than once, on different media, stored in different locations is just basic.

BUT...

Great that a severe risk has been recognised and the business is trying to do something about it!

Let's not go into HDD 'clone' method details at present. Any method will involve some risk but that can be minimised and assessed against the high cost risk (cash, down time, re training, lost orders etc.) if the current system fails!

The HDD contents are not the only risk e.g. Hardware failure (computer, interfaces, cables[bespoke?]) the supporting company, expertise, lack of escrow of software/source code. etc etc..

What I am getting at is there are at least two areas that require consideration. Most importantly a risk assessment for the business -consider all possible detrimental actions,  their impact, likely hood, implications and then what you can do to remove or mitigate those risks. If it is as important as you say then it needs to be a full review? Possibly without delay. Slow response or doing nothing is a risk too!

Next 'you' ought to address each risk based upon it's risk score - likelyhood and severity of impact i.e prioritise!  and continue to manage.

You may well need professional support and I agree with above posts that any 'cloning' should be done like that. Do not introduce another risk to solve a risk!! IMHO as far as the HDD is concerned it will probably need removing from the current machine, copied, replaced etc. You will then need a system that will operate the copied software, maybe with a different disc type, Operating system etc and, as far as is necessary and practicable, future proof. That could be an up to date PC running Win 10 with DOS as a virtual machine or the software rewritten.

It was a fairly simple question and, apologies from me, a long answer!

debitcardmayhem

Why not tell us what is the machine(PC) , and what is the interface to the cutting machine

Neil_Jones

Brian_Pamo said:

Hi all

My brother has a manufacturing company and one of his cutting machines runs on a very old PC. So old I’m sure it has been in place over 20 years. The machine itself is still working but I have told bro that one day this machine will die. So important is this machine that the engineering machine maker does not support this software any more and keeps telling bro that WHEN the 20 year old PC pops it’s clogs then he needs to spend £35,000 (yes that’s right) on a total new machine. To me that is an absolute waste and seeing what this forum is I thought I would ask your opinions. Now, I am more than capable of copying a standard HDD to an SSD (I’ve done it a few times) using Acronis etc but these have been PC’s that we’re running Windows etc. I am sooo nervous about installing any additional software on the pc that runs the machine. In fact... So old is the PC that the software runs in DOS. There is no windows on the HDD. I’ve told bro before that we need a plan in place for when this PC does and understandably he’s very reluctant to go near this old PC let alone some foreign software on it (that probably won’t run anyway). So, opinions please? Is there a device/dock etc that I can use where I don’t have to install anything on the source machine? I know when I normally clone HDD’s I always need to install software on the SOURCE machine but bro is VERY nervous about upsetting a 20+ year old machine. 

Any ideas? 

You don't need to install anything to it.

You firstly need to ascertain what it can boot from.  It may well only be floppy.  Computers couldn't really boot from CD until about 1999, and even then it had to be a bodge image created from a floppy.

A machine of that age is almost certainly going to be IDE only.

getmore4less

As said even if you clone the disc what about the rest of the system.
A disc clone just gives you some chance of recovery from the disc failing. 
A lot of info needed and a lot of potential failure modes. 
If there are any custom interface cards they could be a problem. 
One strategy is to start collecting spare parts to build the equivalent pc system but at that age a lot may have just been thrown out so bits are in short supply or not available. 
It may be that the software will run on newer pc hardware but there is still the machine interfaces to consider. 
I would look around to see if others are still running these machines chances are at least one will have gone through the process. 

DoaM

@Brian_Pamo Is this related to your Compaq Evo N110 thread?

MinuteNoodles

Neil_Jones said:

You don't need to install anything to it.

You firstly need to ascertain what it can boot from.  It may well only be floppy.  Computers couldn't really boot from CD until about 1999, and even then it had to be a bodge image created from a floppy.

A machine of that age is almost certainly going to be IDE only.

The drive will need removing from the machine and putting in a caddy or a PC so it can be cloned. Ascertaining where it can be booted from is competely and utterly irrelevant, you don't even bother to look for drives used in equipment like this, you just do a sector by sector clone.

Also to remember whilst normally just reading a drive to write to another won't cause an issue when you're dealing with 20 year old electronics it's not that simple. I've witnessed more than one time where something that's been running 24/7/365 for several years without issue has died simply because it got turned off and the aged components didn't like the sudden jolt they got when they were powered back up and went bang. In fact in some cases this can be such an issue that engineers will use a variac in order to slowly increase the supply voltage as they power back up old gear rather than it suddenly be hit with 240/415V when the switch is flicked.

Personally I'd stay clear and as others have advised get in a company which specialises in this and is insured to compensate for it going wrong.

Robisere

DOS to USB, drivers:

http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/

USB1.0 first came out in 1996. USB 1.1 in 1998.

You could try this route, but I agree very much with previous posts that recommend a professional company. £35 K is a lot to risk if you do not feel you have the expertise or the competence to handle it. I am not being at all disparaging: my grandson is a very experienced IT specialist and states that his company would not take it on.

Jumblebumble

MinuteNoodles said:

Neil_Jones said:

You don't need to install anything to it.

You firstly need to ascertain what it can boot from.  It may well only be floppy.  Computers couldn't really boot from CD until about 1999, and even then it had to be a bodge image created from a floppy.

A machine of that age is almost certainly going to be IDE only.

The drive will need removing from the machine and putting in a caddy or a PC so it can be cloned. Ascertaining where it can be booted from is competely and utterly irrelevant, you don't even bother to look for drives used in equipment like this, you just do a sector by sector clone.

Also to remember whilst normally just reading a drive to write to another won't cause an issue when you're dealing with 20 year old electronics it's not that simple. I've witnessed more than one time where something that's been running 24/7/365 for several years without issue has died simply because it got turned off and the aged components didn't like the sudden jolt they got when they were powered back up and went bang. In fact in some cases this can be such an issue that engineers will use a variac in order to slowly increase the supply voltage as they power back up old gear rather than it suddenly be hit with 240/415V when the switch is flicked.

Personally I'd stay clear and as others have advised get in a company which specialises in this and is insured to compensate for it going wrong.

+1 Keep well away as this is very likely to end in tears
I suspect that any professional company with half a wit is only going to be willing to do this on a best endeavours basis with no responsibility if it goes pear shaped.
The trouble with Macrium and the like is that back then there was all sorts of disk limits and  bios  bodgery going on to increase usable disk space
https://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO-4.html
suggests that Dos cannot use a disk any bigger than 8.5Gb