Advice regarding John Lewis refusal to replace or refund faulty breadmaker

Alex_B

Hi,
I hope someone can advise.  I was bought a Panasonic breadmaker as a wedding present from John Lewis in April 2017.  I started having issues with it towards the end of 2018 - the fruit and nut dispenser worked only intermittently and all of a sudden the rye bread setting that had worked perfectly for months was causing the bread to come out undercooked inside and crumbly outside for no reason.
I had my first child in July 2018 and did not have an easy time of it for the first few months hence didn't get round to addressing the issue with the breadmaker until April 2019 when it was just coming up to the end of warranty.
What should have taken 6 weeks as a repair ended up taking 3 months involving a lot of chasing by me.  Finally when the breadmaker came back into store apparently having 'passed all tests' I attempted to make rye bread that night and had the exact same problem as before.
I took the item back into store (costing £15 in a taxi as had the taxi to bring it home) and it was sent off for repair again.
This again took 3 months and apparently again 'passed all tests'.  I took it home (this time sharing lugging it back with my husband to avoid more taxi costs!) and attempted to make a seeded loaf as I was too scared to try rye bread in the first instance this time (!) and wanted to make a safe loaf as apparently the dispenser had been repaired in the first repair and should have been working fine.  Lo and behold the fruit and nut dispenser did not open.
By this point I had lost the will to live in terms of lugging it back into store again and had already endured countless hours on the phone to John Lewis and a catalogue of poor service over the previous months (notes missing from my case, one person promising to refund my taxi costs, another saying there was no note of this, not calling back when they said they would etc).
So I wrote a long complaint to their technical support team outlining the whole saga and asking for a replacement or refund considering the item had not worked on either occasion of me getting it home having 'passed all tests'.
I received no reply to this complaint until I sent a follow-up email to demand a response.  The response stated that John Lewis would offer me nothing since the item was now out of warranty and had 'passed all tests' twice.
I replied that I was not satisfied with this since the item was in warranty when I brought it in and a satisfactory fix did not happen with my experience each time that the breadmaker did not work on first attempt at use after 'repair'.
I received no response to this email.
Today I called technical support to follow-up and asked to speak to the manager.  He was very rude and dismissive to me repeating that they would offer me nothing since the item was now out of warranty and has 'passed all tests' with the manufacturer.
I am really shocked at this service from John Lewis.  Can anyone advise whether I have any rights here as I did take the item in within its warranty and both times it was supposedly fixed it did not work when I brought it home.  I told John Lewis I would look into taking this further as am not happy with the service but they informed me that this was essentially pointless as they have evidence that the item passed all manufacturers tests.  I found them extremely uncaring, patronising and rude.  Does the customer's experience / point of view mean nothing?
Do I just have to accept this?  This was not a cheap item (around £170) and is now just sat in its box still not working.  It feels like this cannot be acceptable service and I wondered if anyone had any advice of whether I could take this further or just have to put up with it?
Thanks,
Alex

Supersonos

Alex_B said:

  He was very rude and dismissive to me repeating that they would offer me nothing since the item was now out of warranty and has 'passed all tests' with the manufacturer.

What else are you expecting John Lewis to do?  The manufacturer are telling John Lewis it's working to spec. 

Breadmakers are very simply things, so if it's getting to the right temperature for the correct period of time, the motor for the dough hook is performing correctly etc., there's not really much more Panasonic can do.

All the other variables are the customer - old flour, incorrect ingredients, operating the breadmaker in a cold garage, old yeast, not cleaning the fruit dispenser after each use etc. etc.

If you still think it's the machine that's faulty, I'd take it up with Panasonic and show them proof of the problem.

lincroft1710

As you did not buy the item, you actually have no rights, so anything JL have done is a bonus. Any rights lie with the person who actually bought the item for you.

The actual purchaser does have rights, but as the appliance is now 3 years old, they may not be worth pursuing. Unless it can be proved there is an inherent fault, there is little that can be done. The trouble is that an engineer's report is needed to determine if there is an inherent fault. The appliance's purchaser would have to pay for this, but if an inherent fault was found JL must refund the cost. But as the appliance is 3 years old any refund can take account of the age of the machine, they would not receive back the cost price. So it is necessary to find out the value of a 3 year old Panasonic breadmaker to see if this is worth pursuing.

Alex_B

@Supersonos I would expect a Manager working in Customer Service at John Lewis who pride themselves on service to at least be polite and understanding, even if not offering anything to the customer.  He talked over me and talked down to me in an extremely rude manner.  I do understand their side that the manufacturer has stated the machine passed its tests, but the fruit and nut dispenser did not work for me on first use of the machine after repair despite them saying they had replaced it with a new one.  And I had a specific issue with rye bread which was clearly not tested on the first 'repair' because when I insisted they actually bake a loaf of rye bread on the second repair to replicate my problem they actually had the exact same problem I had where it came out undercooked inside and crumbly outside.  They suggested amending the recipe which to me is not really a fix and the previous recipe taken directly from their manual had worked perfectly fine for months.  I think there is something wrong with the heating or kneading aspect on this setting but that the manufacturer can't figure out what and is trying to fob me off.
Either way from my side, I have had the item twice back from repair and twice it has failed, on two different counts.  I can't see how this is deemed to be an acceptable repair.  I would expect some kind of gesture of goodwill from John Lewis given the hassle and poor service I have received from them in order to retain me as a future customer.  Perhaps my expectations of customer service are too high!

Aylesbury_Duck

Given the circumstances you describe, I think your expectations are too high.

shaun_from_Africa

Alex_B said:

I would expect some kind of gesture of goodwill from John Lewis given the hassle and poor service I have received from them in order to retain me as a future customer.  Perhaps my expectations of customer service are too high!

But as Supersonos has already mentioned (and something that you failed to comment on), John Lewis were under no obligation to attempt any repair whatsoever so I would say that by taking the bread maker and attempting to repair it on 2 occasions, they have given very good service (I won't call it customer service as it isn't, simply because you were not their customer when it comes to the initial purchase.)  as they were doing something that they were not obligated to do.

JL have no obligation to carry out any repair as you were not the purchaser and the Panasonic guarantee doesn't cover it as this guarantee only applies to the initial purchaser and it is not transferrable.

Alex_B

Apologies, I didn't think this was too relevant at the start, I was just giving a general history of the product in terms of it being a wedding present.  In actual fact I did go into store and buy the item so I was the original purchaser.  My godparents wanted to buy me a breadmaker as a wedding present but they wanted me to choose it myself so I bought it and they reimbursed the money later.  So in terms of being the initial purchaser who went into the store and made the purchase that was me.  Sorry for any confusion.

Anyway, I appreciate the comments.  I genuinely was not aware whether or not this is bad customer service, it just feels like the latter because I have bought an expensive item that I would expect to last and brought it in for repair within its warranty and not received a satisfactory repair.  I was very careful to look after the item and know I used it correctly because it worked perfectly for almost a year.  Perhaps things are just not built to last but that is a shame as I find it very wasteful.  But looks like the consensus is to chalk it up to experience, get rid of the item and buy a new one.  However, I will not be using either Panasonic or John Lewis for the next one!

Thanks.

Lomast

Unfortunately if you use it regularly very few bread makers last long they only seem to be designed for occasional use.
 I have yet to have one last longer than a year using it once a week on average.

Supersonos

Lomast said:

Unfortunately if you use it regularly very few bread makers last long they only seem to be designed for occasional use.
 I have yet to have one last longer than a year using it once a week on average.

What?!  We use our Panasonic bread maker at least three times a week, sometimes more than seven times.  Our current one has worked faultlessly for around 5 years.  Our previous one I bought in 2004-ish and gave it to my parents when we got the new one - they still regularly use it to this day!

They're awesome machines that every home should have!

Supersonos

Alex_B said:

@Supersonos I would expect a Manager working in Customer Service at John Lewis who pride themselves on service to at least be polite and understanding, even if not offering anything to the customer.  He talked over me and talked down to me in an extremely rude manner. 

He's only human.  Maybe having a Karen on the other end of the phone pushed him over the edge.