HMRC refusing to pay furlough

poppy12345

If the accountant has made a mistake and no RTI submission was made on or before 19th March then you can't be furloughed. There's no appeals process because that's the rules that the government have made. You will just be one of many people to have fallen through the cracks.

MicheleS01

Thrugelmir said:

MicheleS01 said:

My husband was employed by a newly set up company on 24th February (the company started a few days before that).  The business is a restaurant.  

To start a company and have a restauarant open in a matter of days is nothing short of miraculous. 

The restaurant was already a trading business and was sold to the manager who was going to run it but as an owner.  The only other changes were to a few members of staff (one of which was my husband) who was brought on board to manage the restaurant.  Some members of staff left with the old owner and one or two new staff were brought on board.  There is nothing miraculous about it.

MicheleS01

poppy12345 said:

If the accountant has made a mistake and no RTI submission was made on or before 19th March then you can't be furloughed. There's no appeals process because that's the rules that the government have made. You will just be one of many people to have fallen through the cracks.

That is incredibly sad to read.  I do hope that I'm right and he did make an RTI submission (as he indicated he was doing) before 19 March.  If he has done but used the wrong code then I'm hoping that might make a difference?

Jeremy535897

MicheleS01 said:

I spoke with the accountant early March as he had made a mistake on my husband's first payslip and he said that he had just enough time to change it and had to submit before that Friday which was before the 19th March.  The employer has said that the accountant used the "wrong code" so I'm not sure what that means.  I will get some clarification.  However, it seems obscene that if the accountant has messed up, HMRC won't make the payments.  If that is what's happened surely there must be an appeals process?

The wrong code is probably a reference to the code used to deduct the right amount of tax from your husband's pay, not the activation code. There is no appeals process. If a professional was engaged to do a task and has been negligent, the appropriate recourse is to that professional, and their indemnity insurance.

MicheleS01

Jeremy535897 said:

MicheleS01 said:

I spoke with the accountant early March as he had made a mistake on my husband's first payslip and he said that he had just enough time to change it and had to submit before that Friday which was before the 19th March.  The employer has said that the accountant used the "wrong code" so I'm not sure what that means.  I will get some clarification.  However, it seems obscene that if the accountant has messed up, HMRC won't make the payments.  If that is what's happened surely there must be an appeals process?

The wrong code is probably a reference to the code used to deduct the right amount of tax from your husband's pay, not the activation code. There is no appeals process. If a professional was engaged to do a task and has been negligent, the appropriate recourse is to that professional, and their indemnity insurance.

Sorry I'm probably confusing matters.  My husband's payslip was incorrect due to the amount of pay (he hadn't realised my husband's job and was paying him as a waiter and not a manager) so he had to backtrack and pay the correct amount.  All other details were correct. 

The "wrong code" discussion was mentioned today when HMRC finally spoke to the owner to explain why furlough wasn't going to be paid.  I'm assuming that the accountant has done something with the whole submission and not just my husbands.  However, as the accountant genuinely tried to do the correct thing, surely there must be a process whereby HMRC can look at the overall situation and change their decision?  The problem is that the owner has rung HMRC repeatedly and kept being told he would be contacted in 2-3 days and HMRC have never called back.  It's only today when I rang and explained that we are now in a desperate position that a very kind HMRC operator offered to call the owner. 

mobilejo

Thrugelmir said:

MicheleS01 said:

My husband was employed by a newly set up company on 24th February (the company started a few days before that).  The business is a restaurant.  

To start a company and have a restauarant open in a matter of days is nothing short of miraculous. 

Why? You can incorporate a new company in 10 minutes and take over a trading restaurant business later that day without any miracles.

Jeremy535897

There doesn't need to be an appeals process, because there is nothing to appeal. The legislation requires "a payment of earnings in the tax year 2019/20 which is shown in a return under schedule A1 to the PAYE Regulations that is made on or before" 19 March 2020. Those regulations are here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/822/schedule/made?view=plain
A return under the Regulations cannot be made if the employer has not activated their access to the RTI system.

Remember that your husband is entitled to be paid according to the terms of his contract of employment, as amended by any furlough agreement. Whether or not his employer recovers all or any of that payment under CJRS is a matter for them. Unfortunately as he is a new employee his statutory rights are probably limited to one week's notice and possibly some accrued holiday pay, if the owners have to make him redundant (his contract of employment may provide for more to be paid).

MicheleS01

Ok I now have the full picture.  The PAYE coding didn't arrive until 24th March and the payroll was submitted on 25th March.  However HMRC say that the coding was send on 2nd March - but it definitely wasn't received until 24th.  The business went into lockdown on 18th March and although the post may have got there on 19th March the owner didn't go back to the business premises until 24th March.  Are there any grounds for appeal at all?

Jeremy535897

None I'm afraid.

poppy12345

Look at claiming UC https://www.entitledto.co.uk/