Best method for finding and changing to new Gas/Electricity provider.

Gerry1

The cheapest suppliers are unlikely to pay cashback, they've given low rates instead.  But it's quite likely that newbies won't find the whole of the market results, they're well hidden.

Kitchen_Sink

Gerry1 said:

The cheapest suppliers are unlikely to pay cashback, they've given low rates instead.  But it's quite likely that newbies won't find the whole of the market results, they're well hidden.

Whether they do or whether they don't (and certain big suppliers like BG & Eon have some very tempting offers at the moment exclusively available via comparsion sites) you will see the lot if you use a comparison site and look at not just those suppliers who pay commission.

Then you can make an informed decision as to what is best to you and your specific situation.

There is no one supplier/tariff that is best for all. If there were, there would be no need for comparison sites, 70 odd different suppliers many with numerous different tariffs.

Whether or not a comparison site pays cashback has no relevence to the supplier/tariff on offer. You will never pay more for a particular supplier/tariff going via a comparison site than if you go direct.

But as I mentioned some suppliers do offer tariffs only available via certain comparisison sites, and these are usually cheaper than what you would be offered  if you go direct.

Cashback is part of commission paid to comparison sites (for switches the comparison site refers). It comes from a suppliers marketing fund. Suppliers use comparison sites for marketing purposes as it presumably gives them at least as big a bang for their buck compared to alternative marketing avenues.

Edit: Its very obvious when using one of the accredited comparison sites as to whether or not you are seeing the whole of market.
If you are only seeing suppliers and tariffs the comparison site can switch you to themselves, you are not seeing the whole of market.
By default, the MSE CEC (which is not an ofgem accredited comparison site, as it is primarily a monitoring and alerting service, but uses it's parent site MoneySuperMarket for it's source data, a comparison site which is ofgem accredited) displays by default the whole of market.

Gerry1

Kitchen_Sink said:

Any comment as to where I can find Ampower, Bluegreen Energy, etc on the site you recommend?

I'd never heard of them, hence my surprise.  If they don't want to be on some comparison sites, that's fine by me, but all those sites (including Citizens Advice) shouldn't mislead people by claiming to show all suppliers when that's clearly not the case.  I repeat my question, what's the 'agreed industry definition' ?

Kitchen_Sink said:

Perhaps what we need is for Ofgem to endorse something like a Confidence Code for energy comparison sites people are recommended to use?

My understanding is that Ofgem do NOT require Confidence Code sites to show the Whole of the Market, (i.e. they're allowed to show only the commission paying suppliers).  Sadly, the result is that you can NEVER be confident that they will show you the best deals.  However, they must then include a link to the Citizens Advice site.

QED - that's why I suggest using Citizens Advice first !

Gerry1

Kitchen_Sink said:

By default, the MSE CEC (which is not an ofgem accredited comparison site, as it is primarily a monitoring and alerting service, but uses it's parent site MoneySuperMarket for it's source data, a comparison site which is ofgem accredited) displays by default the whole of market.

It does no such thing.  Whatever you do, it NEVER shows any results for Neon Reef.  You can't even do a comparison using Neon Reef as your existing supplier !

Kitchen_Sink

Gerry1 said:

Kitchen_Sink said:

Any comment as to where I can find Ampower, Bluegreen Energy, etc on the site you recommend?

I'd never heard of them, hence my surprise.  If they don't want to be on some comparison sites, that's fine by me, but all those sites (including Citizens Advice) shouldn't mislead people by claiming to show all suppliers when that's clearly not the case.  I repeat my question, what's the 'agreed industry definition' ?

Thanks for agreeing with me that you do not understand the agreed industry definition of whole of market.
I'm not going to spoon feed you, so I'll let you research that yourself.

How do you define "whole of market"

Why do you recommend Citizens Advice when, by your admission now,  they seem no better than any other site, and arguably a lot worse. e.g. not Ofgem accredited, no possible cashback, cannot even switch through them to any supplier, etc.

Gerry1 said:

My understanding is that Ofgem do NOT require Confidence Code sites to show the Whole of the Market, (i.e. they're allowed to show only the commission paying suppliers).  Sadly, the result is that you can NEVER be confident that they will show you the best deals.

Correct, comparison sites do not have to include suppliers that don't pay them commission, but most do at least as an option. The ones suggested by MSE all do.

Kitchen_Sink

Gerry1 said:

Kitchen_Sink said:

By default, the MSE CEC (which is not an ofgem accredited comparison site, as it is primarily a monitoring and alerting service, but uses it's parent site MoneySuperMarket for it's source data, a comparison site which is ofgem accredited) displays by default the whole of market.

It does no such thing.  Whatever you do, it NEVER shows any results for Neon Reef.  You can't even do a comparison using Neon Reef as your existing supplier !

I'm afraid you are now going around in circles.

What about Ampower, Bluegreen Energy, etc.
Citizens Advice never show any results for them.
You can't even do a comparison using Ampower, Bluegreen Energy, etc as your existing supplier !

Gerry1

Kitchen_Sink said:
Why do you recommend Citizens Advice when, by your admission now,  they seem no better than any other site, and arguably a lot worse. e.g. not Ofgem accredited, no possible cashback, cannot even switch through them to any supplier, etc.

As you know, CA use Energy Helpline which IS Ofgem accredited, but unlike EH they don't default to showing on the commission-paying suppliers.  As previously stated, cashback is unlikely to be available from the cheapest suppliers, but other sites are available.

Kitchen_Sink said:

Gerry1 said:

I repeat my question, what's the 'agreed industry definition' ?

Thanks for agreeing with me that you do not understand the agreed industry definition of whole of market.
I'm not going to spoon feed you, so I'll let you research that yourself.

How do you define "whole of market"

If you're just going to be rude rather than helpfully providing the information I politely requested from someone I assume is connected with the industry, then there's no point in continuing the debate.

As far as I'm concerned, the Whole of the Market is every supplier that will agree to sell me gas or electricity.

Kitchen_Sink

Gerry1 said:

Kitchen_Sink said:
Why do you recommend Citizens Advice when, by your admission now,  they seem no better than any other site, and arguably a lot worse. e.g. not Ofgem accredited, no possible cashback, cannot even switch through them to any supplier, etc.

As you know, CA use Energy Helpline which IS Ofgem accredited, but unlike EH they don't default to showing on the commission-paying suppliers.  As previously stated, cashback is unlikely to be available from the cheapest suppliers, but other sites are available.

I've already covered that point. You appear to be going around in circles again.

Kitchen_Sink said:

Gerry1 said:

I repeat my question, what's the 'agreed industry definition' ?

Thanks for agreeing with me that you do not understand the agreed industry definition of whole of market.
I'm not going to spoon feed you, so I'll let you research that yourself.

How do you define "whole of market"

If you're just going to be rude rather than helpfully providing the information I politely requested from someone I assume is connected with the industry, then there's no point in continuing the debate.

As far as I'm concerned, the Whole of the Market is every supplier that will agree to sell me gas or electricity.

With respect, I was not being rude, but rather simply reiterating a comment you had already alluded to.

Now we know your definition of 'whole of market', hopefully you will stop recommending CA as you know know they clearly do not cover the whole of market by your own definition.

Good luck with finding any site that does!

Gerry1

I certainly won't stop linking to the Citizens Advice comparison site because it's the least worst, defaulting to showing the widest market, if not the whole of the market.  You seem not to think it's worth using multiple sites, so which one would you recommend?  Your own, perhaps? 

And why should ordinary consumers like myself be expected to know all the intricacies of the industry's definitions?  One would hope that people who do know about these things would be happy to help those less enlightened, that's what forums are for.

Kitchen_Sink

Gerry1 said:

I certainly won't stop linking to the Citizens Advice comparison site because it's the least worst, defaulting to showing the widest market, if not the whole of the market.  You seem not to think it's worth using multiple sites, so which one would you recommend?  Your own, perhaps? 

...

On what possible basis do you consider CA the "least worst"?

Do they include all the suppliers? No
Do they provide for possible cashback? No
Do they provide a facility to switch directly to a supplier? No
Do they offer access to exclusive deals? No
Do they offer a monitoring and alert service? No



Which sites would I recommend? Well that is easy.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/you-switch-gas-electricity/