title plan, boundary markings different to neighbours

strawberryberry

  Hi hope you can help with this puzzle - the title plan is showing front to back the T s on the right and back show fence is my responsibility. The left is blank and the neighbours responsibility-  this has been adhered to since I moved in 20 years ago  ( automatically with no discussions just got on with it.). New neighbours insisted that the left fence was mine ' says so on our deeds'  so I got out my copy  ( never looked at them since bought property as no need) , when I showed  the diagram the neighbour then produced their title deeds said they had been  mistaken when they said I was responsible  as theirs showed a 'T'  mark on both sides - of the fence ( H) now   making it a party fence. This has been drawn on not like mine which is typed in. Whos 's is the correct one - I don't want to fall out but then again I don't want to be landed with paying for 1/2 fence when their side hasn't been maintained - I get the impression they wanted it to fall down so they could get me to pay for a whole new  fence. Ive tried to go online to land registry to get a copy of their Title plan so I can see if theirs is a doctored version it is only £3 if you are a business registered its then sent by email. Otherwise its in the post and land registry are only doing e stuff now.  Any suggestions - I am getting harassed by this everytime I go in the garden front or back I get accosted by this fence business. Not  urgent in the scheme of things at the moment for me but causing me stress that I can do without.  If anyone has access to the Land Registry servise pm me and I can send you my details etc . Thanking you

greatcrested

You can ge the TitlePlan for £3 downloaded instantly here. You just have to register first.

AdrianC

The Ts show who's responsible for the boundary. That might not be the same as the owner of the fence on/near the boundary...

Come to a sensible agreement between the two of you like grown adults.

strawberryberry

Thanks for the link - on he bit I read you had to be a business. Paid the money and downloaded the plan - unfortunately its not the same type  as the one Ive got - its the ordnance survey type which jst has a red line round it. We have tired to be nice, Ive offered to pay 1/2 for the panels damaged and my friend offered to stain their side of the fence the full length .
This was dismissed as 'it is a naff fence and  not worth painting' . Some of us have to make do and mend - I havent got the luxury of being abe to buy a new fence - we keep it to the best standard we can and it looks ok with a fresh coat of paint. If the otherside is not maintained it wont last for very long though , thats my worry.  My plan was to   make it last as long as possible   then get it replaced once to last me out ( yes I'm in the old age bracket). 

silvercar

Your deeds show you are not responsible for that boundary. 
I would leave it at that. If someone else claims that you are responsible, let them prove it with land registry.

Alter_ego

Ther is rarely an obligation to fence your land. Even the T's on plans do not oblige you to do so. Read the text of your title to clarify what you are obliged to do.

bouicca21

The back fence on our garden blew down a few years ago.  The management company on the other side rang our management company every day for months asking for it to be replaced as their residents were frightened their dogs would escape.   Our management company man just kept repeating that that there was no obligation to have a fence at all, and if they wanted one they would have to do it and pay for it.  The broken record approach eventually worked - they put a fence up.

Try it.  Just work out a sentence or two to the effect that responsibility for boundary does not equal obligation to erect a fence, and constantly repeat it.

greatcrested

Just paint your side. If you get 'harrassed every time you go into the garden', smile sweetly and suggest they paint their side. Then change the subject eg "I've just put a nice cake in the oven - would you like a slice?"

2bFrank

The last two comments are perfect. Unless you have a lease or title that says otherwise, you just need to provide a boundary, this could be a piece of string if needed. The neighbour sounds like he's trying to bully you in paying for, at least in part a new fence. If you dont want one, just tell him that you are not paying for one, and that if he wants one to pay himself and you do not want to discuss it further.

It is easier to discuss and maybe reach an agreement for a new fence, especially if the old one is in a bad way. Plus you can then have a say on how it looks, materials etc. however if you haven't got the resources then there is no obligation here. its the neighbour that wants it not you.

princeofpounds

T marks aren't a universal convention, and they can mean different things in different deeds. Indeed, if your (or their) deeds are silent on the T marks then they have no significant meaning at all (Avon Estates v Evans 2013) - so don't just rely on the plans.

Furthermore, an obligation indicated in the deeds through the T marks can vary. Sometimes you are committed to maintaining a particular structure. Sometimes are you committed just to maintain some kind of structure (like the aforementioned piece of string). Read your (and their) deeds.

Finally, there is also the question of the ownership and the history of the specific fence itself. This is often (usually) murky, but it may be that the fence in question is not even the actual feature referred to in the deeds. For example, your neighbour usually cannot erect a new fence on the boundary and then later claim that you must maintain it.

I don't understand your points about downloading the plans and title - this can be done very easily as an individual, as others have suggested. Do it and read it for both properties.

strawberryberry

A big thank you to all who have responded and given me good advise -  princeof pounds - yes I did manage to get to the land registry for individuals and get a copy of the Title Plan - I thought this would be the same type  as the one Ive attached a photo of showing the T markings - but instead it provided me with a plan showing all the houses in the  street with a red boundary line round the property in question more like an ordinance survey type map  - which didnt help at all really as its not the boundary thats in question. Perhaps I asked for the wrong document ? but I cant see any thing else  on there  that would be  the same as what Ive got in the photo.
I do feel as though I am being bullied - I am by myself whilst they seem to be getting their whole family involved Grandmother , in-laws and  anyone else - I think its the sunny weather they are going outside and I think its bugging them looking at the tatty bit of broken  fence ( its still up but  some slats have dropped so their are gaps )  when they have had the fence at the back of  their  house recently replaced. I think at the time rather than ask the men for a price to replace the broken bit which would have been cheap and before lock down,  the idea was to bully me into paying for a whole new fence that ran between us.  ( I would have gladly gone half with the broken panels just to be friendly -  even though they had been damaged by the previous people on purpose  as they piled rubbish against it as they were doing a clear out ). I hate the thought of falling out but at the same time shouldn't have to 'buy my way into their good books '    when I cant afford to pay. I thank you all for reading about my dilemma in these difficult times , small things cause more stress than they should.