Paying VAT on account top-ups

hate-banks

davidmcn said:

hate-banks said:

They charge me £1 for VAT because I'm in the UE!! Is this normal? 

If you mean the EU, yes, it's normal to pay VAT when you buy goods or services from somebody else within the EU.

I suspect what's happening is that you're getting confused because the call charges are VAT-exclusive, and it all works out in the end in the same way as you expected. But without seeing the bill it's difficult to tell.

Thanks again. You have looked at the price of the calls, not what they are charging for the phone number rental. I'm not referring to calls here. The SIP virtual phone number is £3 VAT incl. (£2.40 without) a month. 

I'll check with their billing department again about this. Thank you all. 

davidmcn

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

hate-banks said:

They charge me £1 for VAT because I'm in the UE!! Is this normal? 

If you mean the EU, yes, it's normal to pay VAT when you buy goods or services from somebody else within the EU.

I suspect what's happening is that you're getting confused because the call charges are VAT-exclusive, and it all works out in the end in the same way as you expected. But without seeing the bill it's difficult to tell.

Thanks again. You have looked at the price of the calls, not what they are charging for the phone number rental. I'm not referring to calls here. The SIP virtual phone number is £3 VAT incl. (£2.40 without) a month. 

I'll check with their billing department again about this. Thank you all.

So just to clarify, they're deducting £3 from your £5, not £2.40 from your £5 (or £3 from £6)? If so I agree that seems incorrect.

hate-banks

davidmcn said:

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

hate-banks said:

They charge me £1 for VAT because I'm in the UE!! Is this normal? 

If you mean the EU, yes, it's normal to pay VAT when you buy goods or services from somebody else within the EU.

I suspect what's happening is that you're getting confused because the call charges are VAT-exclusive, and it all works out in the end in the same way as you expected. But without seeing the bill it's difficult to tell.

Thanks again. You have looked at the price of the calls, not what they are charging for the phone number rental. I'm not referring to calls here. The SIP virtual phone number is £3 VAT incl. (£2.40 without) a month. 

I'll check with their billing department again about this. Thank you all.

So just to clarify, they're deducting £3 from your £5, not £2.40 from your £5 (or £3 from £6)? If so I agree that seems incorrect.

That's exactly what they're doing indeed. They're deducting £3 for the service which includes VAT, and they're adding Vat to my top ups as well. 

peter_the_piper

Prices are shown in GBP without VAT

Bulgaria has a 20% vat rate so I'd expect to be charged this in some way.

unholyangel

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

if I top up my account for £6.20, then I want £6.20 to appear on my account, not £5. 
If you top up your PAYG mobile for £10, you expect £10 to show on your account, right? Not £10 minus the VAT! This is what they're doing here. 

What happens when they debit the cost of calls from your credit? Are they deducting VAT-exclusive charges? Their tariff here is VAT-exclusive.

Thanks for your help (and others!!)
I'm renting a phone number (SIP Virtual Number) from them which costs £3 a month including VAT and that's what they are charging me, £3 including VAT. So i'm paying VAT on the service itself AND also whenever I top up my account (we can't pay directly with our card, we have to top up our account and they take the money out of it... weirdos). 

Initially I thought they were wrong, but reading this post has helped I think. You can let me know if I have picked it up wrong. 

You're paying VAT for having the phone line available. You're then paying VAT on when you prepay for calls. 

If my understanding is correct then their charging of VAT is correct because paying VAT on line rental doesn't mean you don't pay VAT on call charges. Either your maths or their maths is off though as the base charge before VAT on a VAT inclusive price of £3 would be £2.50. You need to divide by 1.2. 

hate-banks

unholyangel said:

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

if I top up my account for £6.20, then I want £6.20 to appear on my account, not £5. 
If you top up your PAYG mobile for £10, you expect £10 to show on your account, right? Not £10 minus the VAT! This is what they're doing here. 

What happens when they debit the cost of calls from your credit? Are they deducting VAT-exclusive charges? Their tariff here is VAT-exclusive.

Thanks for your help (and others!!)
I'm renting a phone number (SIP Virtual Number) from them which costs £3 a month including VAT and that's what they are charging me, £3 including VAT. So i'm paying VAT on the service itself AND also whenever I top up my account (we can't pay directly with our card, we have to top up our account and they take the money out of it... weirdos). 

Initially I thought they were wrong, but reading this post has helped I think. You can let me know if I have picked it up wrong. 

You're paying VAT for having the phone line available. You're then paying VAT on when you prepay for calls. 

If my understanding is correct then their charging of VAT is correct because paying VAT on line rental doesn't mean you don't pay VAT on call charges. Either your maths or their maths is off though as the base charge before VAT on a VAT inclusive price of £3 would be £2.50. You need to divide by 1.2. 

No, I'm not adding money on my account to pay for calls, I'm just topping up an account, from which they take the money to pay for the phone number rental, there is no calls, I have not talked about calls, I don't use their call service. 
Adding money to an account is NOT like paying for a service, I'm just adding money to my account so they're not paying VAT on that! They're only paying VAT when they charge me for the service, so why am I charged VAT when they're not paying for it?? As I previously mentioned, in the UK, when you top up your PAYG mobile account, you are not charged VAT, VAT is charged when the phone company charge you for calls/text messages or data. 

peter_the_piper

You're charged for the use of a number, so its a service and therefore vattable. Are you sure its UK vat or are you charged in Bulgaria? In which case their rules could easily be quite different to here.  Anyway, if not happy with the way they do this then why not find another service?

unholyangel

hate-banks said:

unholyangel said:

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

if I top up my account for £6.20, then I want £6.20 to appear on my account, not £5. 
If you top up your PAYG mobile for £10, you expect £10 to show on your account, right? Not £10 minus the VAT! This is what they're doing here. 

What happens when they debit the cost of calls from your credit? Are they deducting VAT-exclusive charges? Their tariff here is VAT-exclusive.

Thanks for your help (and others!!)
I'm renting a phone number (SIP Virtual Number) from them which costs £3 a month including VAT and that's what they are charging me, £3 including VAT. So i'm paying VAT on the service itself AND also whenever I top up my account (we can't pay directly with our card, we have to top up our account and they take the money out of it... weirdos). 

Initially I thought they were wrong, but reading this post has helped I think. You can let me know if I have picked it up wrong. 

You're paying VAT for having the phone line available. You're then paying VAT on when you prepay for calls. 

If my understanding is correct then their charging of VAT is correct because paying VAT on line rental doesn't mean you don't pay VAT on call charges. Either your maths or their maths is off though as the base charge before VAT on a VAT inclusive price of £3 would be £2.50. You need to divide by 1.2. 

No, I'm not adding money on my account to pay for calls, I'm just topping up an account, from which they take the money to pay for the phone number rental, there is no calls, I have not talked about calls, I don't use their call service. 
Adding money to an account is NOT like paying for a service, I'm just adding money to my account so they're not paying VAT on that! They're only paying VAT when they charge me for the service, so why am I charged VAT when they're not paying for it?? As I previously mentioned, in the UK, when you top up your PAYG mobile account, you are not charged VAT, VAT is charged when the phone company charge you for calls/text messages or data. 

So what's the issue then? Because if you're only being charged once, you're only paying VAT once. 

You're basically prepaying for services. So are being correctly charged £5 + VAT @ 20% = £6. 

shaun_from_Africa

I have a mail forwarding service (which includes a virtual address) set up in another EU country  and in effect, this is no different to your virtual phone number contract.
I am paying for the service to be provided for which I pay a monthly fee (and this is the same as your payable phone service) and I also pay a fee for every letter that they receive and forward to me (which is the equivalent of you paying for your calls).
I have to pay VAT for both the monthly charge because this is a VAT rated service and also pay VAT on whatever I am billed for the forwarding of the mail.

You can't really compare the service you are getting and a PAYG phone service as they are quite different.
A PAYG phone number simply means that the phone company give you a number and once this has been done, there are no further costs incurred by them irrespective of whether or not you use the number provided.
The Bulgarian company are providing you with the ability to use your virtual number to make and receive calls should you wish to do so and this service needs paying for and that payment attracts VAT.

Jumblebumble

hate-banks said:

davidmcn said:

hate-banks said:

They charge me £1 for VAT because I'm in the UE!! Is this normal? 

If you mean the EU, yes, it's normal to pay VAT when you buy goods or services from somebody else within the EU.

I suspect what's happening is that you're getting confused because the call charges are VAT-exclusive, and it all works out in the end in the same way as you expected. But without seeing the bill it's difficult to tell.

Thanks again. You have looked at the price of the calls, not what they are charging for the phone number rental. I'm not referring to calls here. The SIP virtual phone number is £3 VAT incl. (£2.40 without) a month. 

I'll check with their billing department again about this. Thank you all. 

I am confused
Can you tell us the area code and the type of number  ( standard silver gold )