Leaving rental tenancy early

Crashy_Time

Comms69 said:

Crashy_Time said:

Agreement seems broken to me, tell the landlord that your daughter is taking a "rent holiday" and let them take it from there, she will probably lose any deposit? Can see this scenario happening more and more, many landlords must be panicking by now.

Ignore this advice. It's guaranteed to lead to a CCJ. 

So you are saying that someone who has lost their job can`t take a rent holiday any more?

startoveragain

Thank you. As there was a verbal agreement among the 3 tenants to pay certain amounts to the agent for the rent with a mandate set up (which incidentally was illegible so unaccepted by my daughters bank) it is the remaining 2 tenants that are threatening to take my daughter to court for overdue rent. As obviously there is now a shortfall in the rent paid to the agent that I assume the remaining tenants are having to pay. My daughter has lost her job and not in a position to continue paying, nor eligible for benefits.

Crashy_Time

brett19852010 said:

startoveragain said:

Thank you, yes it is a joint and several contract. My daughter was told after moving in that the boyfriend would be living there through the lockdown "to avoid the mixing of several households" however they still regularly went to visit the in laws. The boyfriend paid a quarter of bills but no rent. The girlfriend has agreed to remove the boyfriend from the property for my daughter to move back, but she has lost her job and cannot pay the rent, nor after such animosity would not find the situation very comfortable. I doubt very much they would agree to reducing the rent for the month she was there or since she left until the contract expires in September.
The boyfriend apparently pays for a room in another property elsewhere so is unlikely to want to take over my daughter's part of the agreement.
Currently, and probably until September, there is no demand for rooms in the town as there is a huge suuply due to the current sutuation and no demand.
 In the contract is does state:
Not to assign, sublet, part with, or share the possession of all or part of the Property with any other person without the Landlord’s or the Agent’s prior written consent, which will not be unreasonably withheld.
Not to take in lodgers or paying guests or allow any person other than the person named as the Tenant in this Agreement and any permitted family, children or personal staff to occupy or reside in the Property unless the Landlord or the Agent has given written consent, which will not be unreasonably withheld.
No additional occupiers including children can reside in the Property unless the Tenant and any occupiers form a single family group. The Tenant cannot have any occupiers even if they form a single family group with the Tenant within the Property unless the Tenant has gained the Landlord’s prior written consent. If there are occupiers not in a single family group residing in the Property without the Landlord’s consent then the Landlord will seek a Court Order for possession of the Property as the Landlord may be in breach of his statutory obligations.
However, instead of sharing the house with 2 females, my daughter was sharing 24/7 with 2 females and a male. Would he therefore be classed as an "Occupier" making the tenancy Agreement invalid?
Where would she stand if the other 2 tenants took her to court? By the way, the boyfriend is a lawyer. 

The tenancy agreement is between the tenants (party 1) and the landlord (party 2). It is not agreement that party 1 can enforce against itself, ie one tenant against the other. Matters between tenants such as who has each room, the apportionment of rents, are either for the written, verbal or tacit agreement of the tenants. It would be entirely for the landlord to decide if they wanted to pursue court action against any or all the tenants. Understand the meaning of Joint and several liability. The idea that you are asking if the tenancy agreement could be invalidated is so strange because it's your daughter who is jointly and severally liable for the breach. I'd also point out that tenancy agreement are not invalidated simply because you find one term, usually something minor to be amiss. Broken heating systems and leaking roof doesn't invalidate.

Someone living there all the time who isn`t on the lease probably does. I would run it past the landlord that government advice/instruction on social distancing is being broken, along with someone there all the time who isn`t on the lease and suggest that maybe the local authority could advise him about this, or maybe you could run it past them for him. See what that brings. Is the landlord a fully licensed/tax declaring HMO landlord?

Comms69

Crashy_Time said:

Comms69 said:

Crashy_Time said:

Agreement seems broken to me, tell the landlord that your daughter is taking a "rent holiday" and let them take it from there, she will probably lose any deposit? Can see this scenario happening more and more, many landlords must be panicking by now.

Ignore this advice. It's guaranteed to lead to a CCJ. 

So you are saying that someone who has lost their job can`t take a rent holiday any more?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying

[Deleted User]

Crashy_Time said:

[Deleted User] said:

startoveragain said:

Thank you, yes it is a joint and several contract. My daughter was told after moving in that the boyfriend would be living there through the lockdown "to avoid the mixing of several households" however they still regularly went to visit the in laws. The boyfriend paid a quarter of bills but no rent. The girlfriend has agreed to remove the boyfriend from the property for my daughter to move back, but she has lost her job and cannot pay the rent, nor after such animosity would not find the situation very comfortable. I doubt very much they would agree to reducing the rent for the month she was there or since she left until the contract expires in September.
The boyfriend apparently pays for a room in another property elsewhere so is unlikely to want to take over my daughter's part of the agreement.
Currently, and probably until September, there is no demand for rooms in the town as there is a huge suuply due to the current sutuation and no demand.
 In the contract is does state:
Not to assign, sublet, part with, or share the possession of all or part of the Property with any other person without the Landlord’s or the Agent’s prior written consent, which will not be unreasonably withheld.
Not to take in lodgers or paying guests or allow any person other than the person named as the Tenant in this Agreement and any permitted family, children or personal staff to occupy or reside in the Property unless the Landlord or the Agent has given written consent, which will not be unreasonably withheld.
No additional occupiers including children can reside in the Property unless the Tenant and any occupiers form a single family group. The Tenant cannot have any occupiers even if they form a single family group with the Tenant within the Property unless the Tenant has gained the Landlord’s prior written consent. If there are occupiers not in a single family group residing in the Property without the Landlord’s consent then the Landlord will seek a Court Order for possession of the Property as the Landlord may be in breach of his statutory obligations.
However, instead of sharing the house with 2 females, my daughter was sharing 24/7 with 2 females and a male. Would he therefore be classed as an "Occupier" making the tenancy Agreement invalid?
Where would she stand if the other 2 tenants took her to court? By the way, the boyfriend is a lawyer. 

The tenancy agreement is between the tenants (party 1) and the landlord (party 2). It is not agreement that party 1 can enforce against itself, ie one tenant against the other. Matters between tenants such as who has each room, the apportionment of rents, are either for the written, verbal or tacit agreement of the tenants. It would be entirely for the landlord to decide if they wanted to pursue court action against any or all the tenants. Understand the meaning of Joint and several liability. The idea that you are asking if the tenancy agreement could be invalidated is so strange because it's your daughter who is jointly and severally liable for the breach. I'd also point out that tenancy agreement are not invalidated simply because you find one term, usually something minor to be amiss. Broken heating systems and leaking roof doesn't invalidate.

Someone living there all the time who isn`t on the lease probably does. I would run it past the landlord that government advice/instruction on social distancing is being broken, along with someone there all the time who isn`t on the lease and suggest that maybe the local authority could advise him about this, or maybe you could run it past them for him. See what that brings. Is the landlord a fully licensed/tax declaring HMO landlord?

Respectfully, I can only refer you back to my post and the discussion therein. If there is a breach, the daughter is liable collectively, therefore cannot seek to rely on it against the landlord i.e. in the hope that the contact is void.
There is no entitlement to a rent holiday. If the other tenants are forced to pay the rent to cover the daughter, they would presumably have standing to initiate a small claim against her. 
The rent is absolutely due.
There is no reason to believe tax is unpaid nor that this would invalidate a tenancy. With four people in an HMO it is fairly unlikely it will require a licence and to rely on the landlord eventually being found responsible at court for having an unlicensed HMO is a long shot.

startoveragain

Yes, the LL declares HMO. My daughter has just received an e mail from the agency saying the boyfriend has left the property and my daughter is welcome to move back in, which she cannot afford to do having lost her job. Besides she would have wanted to wait the government recommended 2 weeks anyway in case of Covid infection. Would she have a case under consumer law?

[Deleted User]

startoveragain said:

Yes, the LL declares HMO. My daughter has just received an e mail from the agency saying the boyfriend has left the property and my daughter is welcome to move back in, which she cannot afford to do having lost her job. Besides she would have wanted to wait the government recommended 2 weeks anyway in case of Covid infection. Would she have a case under consumer law?

Ah so it is declared, presumably there is selective HMO licencing in the area.
The circumstance of COVID 19 are no more a justification for me to stop paying the lease on my car which I currently don't drive, then to fail to pay rent.  
If the landlord is still getting rent in full expect a small claim from the others against your daughter.
If the landlord is coming up short  expect section 8 eviction CCJ etc.

startoveragain

I see. When I say Consumer Law. I refer to the fact that the property was advertised for rent to share with 2 other females, and she ends up sharing with a male too. She was only there just over 1 month and although didn't feel comfortable with the situation, as she was entering a household where the other 2 (actually 3) occupiers already knew each other she didn't feel comfortable addressing the situation, hoping Covid restrictions would be over soon and the boyfriend would return to his flat. However, meanwhile she lost her job,making it even more difficult to remain. Maybe she has a case under Consumer Law / Misdescription.
Otherwise as you say she will likely expect a claim through the courts. Thank you so much for all your advice.

Bossypants

Crashy_Time said:

Comms69 said:

Crashy_Time said:

Agreement seems broken to me, tell the landlord that your daughter is taking a "rent holiday" and let them take it from there, she will probably lose any deposit? Can see this scenario happening more and more, many landlords must be panicking by now.

Ignore this advice. It's guaranteed to lead to a CCJ. 

So you are saying that someone who has lost their job can`t take a rent holiday any more?

Rent holidays need to be 1) agreed with the landlord and 2) paid back. Anything else will llikely lead to a CCJ, that has always been the case. 

greatcrested

I'm sorry, but it is very simple, so I'm not sure why you are having trouble accepting this.

* she has (you confirmed above) a 'joint and several' tenancy along with 2 others.

* thus all 3 are equally responsible for the full rent (whether they choose to live there, move out, whatever).

* if the full rent is not paid, the LL can pursue any one of the joint tenants, any 2, or all 3. That is what 'joint and several' means.

* arrangements internally (who gets which room, how they apportion the rent between themselves) are nothing to do with the LL. It's down to the 3 to discuss and agree

* There is no 'rent holiday'. What the government has done, to help tenants, is make LLs wait longer before being able to evict tenants for rent arrears. 3 months instead of 2 weeks (for a S8 Notice). Rent is still due.

* if she cannot pay her share due to work problems, she as several options:

i) negotiate with the joint tenants and pursuade them to pay a larger share (or all her share) either for a short time or longer term. Without checking, I recall she has an ensuite? Perhaps switching to a room without ensuite would help the negotiation?

ii) find a replacement 3rd tenant. This would need to be someone acceptable to both the other joint tenants, and the LL. A Deed of Assignment could then be executed substituting someone in her place.But all parties need to agree.

iii) try to end the tenancy. I forget if it's a fixed term or periodic? If periodic, she could serve notice which woul apply to all 3 tenants - though they'd all have to move out. If fixed term, all 3 could request an 'Early Surrender' which the LL might, or might not, agree to. Again, they'd allhave to vacate.

iv) walk away. Either the other 2 will just pay her share and then perhaps chase her for it - maybe via the courts, or perhaps they'd let the arreas build up and the LL would then chase 1 or more of them.