How does she proceed to get what's hers?

BAFE

How much was the car sold for and how did the daughter get hold of the car keys?

Malthusian

TonyMMM said:

Comms69 said:

Just curious why you think the police wont look to recover a stolen vehicle? 

They could treat it as stolen if you can persuade them but in reality although you can make the circumstances fit the legal definitions of theft, there is no remote chance of the CPS proceeding with a case in these circumstances - for example, all the daughter has to do is say that dad promised her the car before he died and any case is going to fail.

While you may be right that the CPS won't bother to prosecute (and the police have already said they don't care), the daughter saying that dad promised her the car before he died would not cause the case to fail. Even if he did, and even if the daughter had a video recording of him doing so in front of twenty witnesses, it is completely irrelevant if he either died intestate or left the car to his wife in his Will.

Or if the car was owned jointly by him and his wife.

The obvious way forward is to tell the person who bought the stolen goods that the car was stolen so they're not getting the registration document. Getting their money back from the daughter will then be their problem.

As for the mother, she should just write it off. If it made that much of a difference she would have renewed the insurance and would now be claiming on it.

Gavin83

Comms69 said:

TonyMMM said:

Comms69 said:

Just curious why you think the police wont look to recover a stolen vehicle? 

They could treat it as stolen if you can persuade them but in reality although you can make the circumstances fit the legal definitions of theft, there is no remote chance of the CPS proceeding with a case in these circumstances - for example, all the daughter has to do is say that dad promised her the car before he died and any case is going to fail. 

It is a dispute within a family over inheritance.

The best chance of an easy resolution  may be the dealer not wanting the aggro of getting caught up in the argument with a vehicle he can't easily get a logbook for and cancelling the deal if he can.

Given you can steal your own property (and there have been prosecutions for this) i fail to see your logic on this - sorry.

Please explain to me as I'm at a loss, how do you steal your own property? I assume there's some sort of caveat you haven't explained.

Comms69

Gavin83 said:

Comms69 said:

TonyMMM said:

Comms69 said:

Just curious why you think the police wont look to recover a stolen vehicle? 

They could treat it as stolen if you can persuade them but in reality although you can make the circumstances fit the legal definitions of theft, there is no remote chance of the CPS proceeding with a case in these circumstances - for example, all the daughter has to do is say that dad promised her the car before he died and any case is going to fail. 

It is a dispute within a family over inheritance.

The best chance of an easy resolution  may be the dealer not wanting the aggro of getting caught up in the argument with a vehicle he can't easily get a logbook for and cancelling the deal if he can.

Given you can steal your own property (and there have been prosecutions for this) i fail to see your logic on this - sorry.

Please explain to me as I'm at a loss, how do you steal your own property? I assume there's some sort of caveat you haven't explained.

Sure. Just because you own something, doesnt mean you have a right to have it. 

The caselaw for this stems to a dispute at a garage, where the owner took the vehicle, without paying his bill. He was convicted of theft. (even though the bill aspect, is a civil matter)

In terms of theft, simply being in possession or control of a piece of property, provides you with more rights than the 'owner' (ie who paid for it).

the key aspect is the definition of 'belonging to another' http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/5

macman

Comms69 said:

TonyMMM said:

Forget any police action for the car being stolen - not going to happen. 

First of all - did your friend leave a will ? If he did, who is the executor ?
If not, then the rules of intestacy give the first £250k to a spouse - only if the estate is more than that are his children automatically entitled to anything.

If there was no will, who (if anyone) has applied to administer his estate ? 

I would start with a formal letter to the car trader telling him the ownership of the car is subject to dispute, which may be enough for him to want to unwind the deal .... at the same time send a letter to the daughter advising her that the car is part of the estate and as such the car, or the proceeds of the sale, should be sent to the widow asap.

If she still refuses - then you are looking at court action to recover the money.

Just curious why you think the police wont look to recover a stolen vehicle? 

Because it wasn't taken by force or deception. She must have had access to the keys. 
Who will be liable for the fine for having an untaxed, uninsured and un-MOT'd vehicle on the road though?

Comms69

macman said:

Comms69 said:

TonyMMM said:

Forget any police action for the car being stolen - not going to happen. 

First of all - did your friend leave a will ? If he did, who is the executor ?
If not, then the rules of intestacy give the first £250k to a spouse - only if the estate is more than that are his children automatically entitled to anything.

If there was no will, who (if anyone) has applied to administer his estate ? 

I would start with a formal letter to the car trader telling him the ownership of the car is subject to dispute, which may be enough for him to want to unwind the deal .... at the same time send a letter to the daughter advising her that the car is part of the estate and as such the car, or the proceeds of the sale, should be sent to the widow asap.

If she still refuses - then you are looking at court action to recover the money.

Just curious why you think the police wont look to recover a stolen vehicle? 

Because it wasn't taken by force or deception. She must have had access to the keys. 
Who will be liable for the fine for having an untaxed, uninsured and un-MOT'd vehicle on the road though?

Neither of which is necessary for a theft offence. 

Taking by force would be robbery.