Furloughed or not?

Dottydoolay

Long one I’m afraid so 4 years service told furloughed from the start by the employer but received nothing to sign to date. Still received no payments, no voluntary updates whatsoever since March and now when asked for an update just told Still awaiting furlough payments that was it no other information whatsoever. 

Are we really furloughed without even signing anything? Can the HRMC corona line confirm with our personal details if we are even in the system?

Small business one of those if your face fits at the time type establishments, no HR etc to turn to and it appears only the few staff who earned a full time wage are even querying their position with regards to finances.

Business has shut up shop furloughed with grants etc I believe but are now trading under a different name in the meantime by the looks of it with the staff who’s face fits.
Thankyou for any advice or information.

Ashworks

You don't have to sign anything to be furloughed, but you do need to be properly notified of the conditions. The scheme works by the employer paying you and then claiming back from the scheme, so you wont be registered individually. It's hard to comment otherwise without knowing what type of contract you are on, but the company should certainly be keeping you informed, that is poor behaviour.

Dottydoolay

Thankyou, no actual written contract in place.

Just from constant online searches I’m reading that all individuals PAYE details must be confirmed to HRMC along with a signed agreement via the employer to enable the scheme to trigger. 

I was hoping some of my personal information could then be cross matched with the scheme somehow? As yes they’re claiming but they’re claiming with my personal details.

I am furloughed with another employer and electronically signed a furlough agreement back in March, have received furlough pay and payslips electronically.

My huge concern is despite any amount of searches online I have failed to find anyone in a similar position. Furloughed friends and family have signed documents electronically have received pay and payslips where we have nothing.

Thankyou again

Ashworks

I'm furloughed and had a letter but didn't have to sign anything, my employer is very good so they would always follow best practice. Maybe the rules have changed though. The payment is claimed retrospectively - the employer needs to pay you in order to then claim the money back. The main problem is that you don't have a contract, as this is what determines when and what they pay you, not the scheme. 

Jeremy535897

If you have no written contract of employment, you have an oral contract. Over a four year period, the terms will have become clear enough. I am sure you know your hours, rate of pay, how you are paid, your holiday entitlement etc.

Your employer cannot legally furlough you for CJRS without agreeing that with you. They don't need your agreement in writing, but they have to have discussed it with you.

They are obliged to keep paying you as they have been doing until they vary your terms. Whether or not they get anything from the government has no bearing on that.

It is a misconception that employers have to pay you before obtaining a grant. They should have got one by now if they applied properly, although it looks as if they haven't met the requirement to discuss it with you.

If you think they are claiming CJRS without paying at least the amount they get for your net wage to you, you can involve HMRC:

I suggest you read the guidance to employees. It starts with:

"If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.

Your employer could pay 80% of your regular wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, up to a monthly cap of £2,500.

You’ll still be paid by your employer and pay taxes from your income. You cannot undertake work for your employer while on furlough.

The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme forms part of a collective national effort to protect people’s jobs. You can play a vital role by reporting fraudulent claims to HMRC. Fraudulent claims risk the provision of public services and the protection of livelihoods.

If you’re concerned that your employer is abusing the scheme you should report them. This could include your employer claiming on your behalf and not paying you what you’re entitled to, being asked to work whilst on furlough, or making a backdated claim that includes times when you were working."

The full guidance for employees is here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-could-be-covered-by-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

EssJayD

Employer does need to confirm the furlough agreement in writing as this is will form part of the audit chain when companies get audited in future.  If nothing has been confirmed in writing you shouldn't be furloughed under the scheme.  I imagine many employers haven't put it in writing if intending to claim under the scheme and thats their risk and that's fine, until it isn't.

It sounds to me like the company is just ignoring you which they shouldn't be doing as they do need to discuss and confirm whether you are furloughed, laid off, redundant etc.  At this stage I'd start discussions with and get it logged with ACAS.  

Dottydoolay

Thankyou, all we basically have is what’s being said on a Facebook group or via private messages.