Court appointed Deputy for PoA - fees

Saigongal

Context - In Feb 2019 the Court of Protection made a Solicitor of their choice the Deputy Attorney for Property and Finance for my step-father (Z). He and my mother were living in the same home, and my mum was his carer. The Deputy allowed my mother control of the joint account, but took control of Z's sole accounts. As mum and Z were living together and shared all costs, all expenses came from the joint account managed by mum and there was nothing for the Deputy to do beyond look at Z's bank statements each month. We had no contact with the Deputy until October 2019 when my mum contacted the Deputy to ask to use Z's funds to pay for home-care as Z now had dementia and his mobility had decreased and my mum was having ill-health and required treatment so could not care for him. Mum's illness escalated, resulting in Z going into a care home for respite during mum's treatment period, and the Deputy authorised these payments and ensured they were made - Z's savings were not high, but just exceeded the upper limit for free care. The Deputy made her annual visit to Z in March 2020.
Issue - Z passed away earlier this month and as executor of the will I asked our family solicitor to manage probate as my mum is still ill. My solicitor has come back to me with concerns that the Deputy has submitted costs that seem rather excessive. The bill is running into £ thousands and that's only up to November 2019. They have yet to submit their full bill even through they told me they were ready to submit to their annual accounts to the Court of Protection for approval. What has been submitted is simply a statement saying 'for Professional Services', and appears to be around the level of £1,000 per month, plus 20% VAT. There is no detail as to what these professional services involve, be it letters, phone calls, reviewing bank statements, etc. My solicitor tells me that the Deputy has asked if she can simply approve what they have billed without it having to go to the Court of Protection for approval.
I have searched on line but can find little guidance in the way of expectations of behaviour or contact of Court appointed Deputies with clients, or regarding fees that they can charge.
Questions - 
Am I entitled to request detail on the bills to see what they did for the money they are billing?
What is the role of the Court of Protection in this?
Has anybody got any experience of this situation, or can you guide me to any documentation that may help me understand what is happening and what I can do to ensure that Z's estate is not frittered away needlessly on inflated Deputy bills? 
Thanks

sheramber

According to this the deputy has to submit a report each year to the Court of Protection.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/612523/SD3-How-to-be-a-deputy-property-and-financial-decisions.pdf
I would wonder why she did not want to submit it for approval. 

noclaf

The fact that your family solicitor has raised concerns and from what you have mentioned regarding the £1k per month charges, you have good reason to be concerned. I'd want to get sight of every single charge the deputy has put through as the figure seems v high and if details were intentionally omitted from a submission to the CoP that looks/sounds suspect. Of more concern is that it's a "legal professional". You may also want to seek advice from your family solicitor on how best to proceed e.g: if this needs to be escalated to the CoP then make sure it's done in the right way from a legal standpoint.

Saigongal

sheramber said:

According to this the deputy has to submit a report each year to the Court of Protection.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/612523/SD3-How-to-be-a-deputy-property-and-financial-decisions.pdf
I would wonder why she did not want to submit it for approval. 

Thanks Sheramber - I will look at that link now. Yes indeed I did wonder why she wanted to submit direct to us rather than go through the normal channels. She said about doing this when she thought I was going to employ her firm to complete probate!

Saigongal

noclaf said:

The fact that your family solicitor has raised concerns and from what you have mentioned regarding the £1k per month charges, you have good reason to be concerned. I'd want to get sight of every single charge the deputy has put through as the figure seems v high and if details were intentionally omitted from a submission to the CoP that looks/sounds suspect. Of more concern is that it's a "legal professional". You may also want to seek advice from your family solicitor on how best to proceed e.g: if this needs to be escalated to the CoP then make sure it's done in the right way from a legal standpoint.

Thanks noclaf - I have been in contact with my solicitor and she is seeking more advice on this issue as she has not come across it before, which is why I have put this out on the forum - it worries me when solicitors say they haven't come across a situation before (although it seems that any issue I bring to a solicitor, any solicitor, is a unique one that they have never seen before and need to charge for hours of research but whether I am actually so different to the rest of the population in the issues I experience is another matter). She has so far suggested that I email to the Deputy refusing to accept the fees they are billing, and to copy this to the CoP, but has asked me to hold on this until she gets further information. It does seem like something to raise with the CoP - I agree with that for sure. Thanks.

Keep_pedalling

I am not surprised your solicitor has not come across this before, it is very rare for a professional to be appointed by the courts where the person is being cared for by family. How did this happen and why did no family member get involved at the time?

Saigongal

Keep_pedalling said:

I am not surprised your solicitor has not come across this before, it is very rare for a professional to be appointed by the courts where the person is being cared for by family. How did this happen and why did no family member get involved at the time?

Thanks for your comment. Interesting to know that family usually isn't involved when the court appoints a deputy - leaves the door right open really!! But the how and why of it are not important here - the issue is the costs that the Deputy is charging to administer and how I may determine if what they are doing is correct - charging vast amounts for 'Professional Services' without detail, when we know that there was very little to administer - and asking us to approve without returning their accounts back to the CoP for approval. Any experience in this?

Keep_pedalling

Saigongal said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I am not surprised your solicitor has not come across this before, it is very rare for a professional to be appointed by the courts where the person is being cared for by family. How did this happen and why did no family member get involved at the time?

Thanks for your comment. Interesting to know that family usually isn't involved when the court appoints a deputy - leaves the door right open really!! But the how and why of it are not important here - the issue is the costs that the Deputy is charging to administer and how I may determine if what they are doing is correct - charging vast amounts for 'Professional Services' without detail, when we know that there was very little to administer - and asking us to approve without returning their accounts back to the CoP for approval. Any experience in this?

Although deputies have to submit accounts, I do not think they get scrutinised unless someone raises concerns with the CoP and going by other threads on here once the person dies they do not seem to get involved at all. 

It is perfectly possible that the solicitor was on a fixed annual fee so would get paid a significant sum even if they were not called on. I think your only option, is to get their breakdown of charges, complain to the firm’s complaints department if you are not happy with the charges, and to the SRA if you get no joy.

The CoP are not really going to be much help with regard to the solicitor’s charges.