Will there be Pension apartheid?

nigelbb

itwasntme001 said:

One thing is for sure - the 80s were a great time to be a junior doctor - they have milked it.  Not too sure now is a good time however.

I'm not sure that anyone would regard the 80s as a great time to be a junior doctor when a 100 hour working week was still common & overtime hours were paid at one quarter of base salary.

Bravepants

At the end of the day if I die then most of my DB pension reverts to the state. I won't have a massive pot to "pass on" (or even need one to "p*ss in" - :-) sorry I couldn't help myself).  My partner would get 37.5% of whatever annual pension I will receive. So all I get is some assured income/benefit for the time I am still alive after finishing work. I might only live for a year after retiring at which point all of my contributions to my pension have been a total waste of time and money - apart from funding others' pensions. There are roughly just over 5 million people who work for the public sector, or 17% of the working population of about 30 million. So, all in all, let's have some perspective eh?

andy001

There are pros and cons for both DB and DC pensions (public sector vs private sector). Those who hope to equalise public/private sector should join opposite side if they wish to..(plenty jobs in both sectors, not enough UK people to work and filled by non UK citizens !).
This forum is meant to help ''all'' of us to save money and not to bring each other down

(COI: DB pension)

Marcon

doris540 said:

With recent events and the what can only be called a slaughtering of Private sector and Personal Pensions due to the stock market and other factors in relation to the virus, will there be a long overdue overhaul of Public sector pensions to try and equal things out.

No, but do keep posting - it gives everyone a good giggle.

Silvertabby

Bravepants said:

At the end of the day if I die then most of my DB pension reverts to the state. I won't have a massive pot to "pass on" (or even need one to "p*ss in" - :-) sorry I couldn't help myself).  My partner would get 37.5% of whatever annual pension I will receive. So all I get is some assured income/benefit for the time I am still alive after finishing work. I might only live for a year after retiring at which point all of my contributions to my pension have been a total waste of time and money - apart from funding others' pensions. There are roughly just over 5 million people who work for the public sector, or 17% of the working population of about 30 million. So, all in all, let's have some perspective eh?

If it's any consolation, then the 5 year guarantee will almost certainly / 10 year guarantee will certainly mean that you or your beneficiary will get back the monies you have paid into the scheme.   Yes, your employer is likely to have paid a lot more in, but that's all part and parcel of DB schemes.  The employer contribution surplus in respect of pensioners who die early pay for the pensions of those who die in their 90s or even 100s.

There was a LGPS case some time back.  In round years, the fund member worked/contributed for 20 years.  He then took early retirement on ill health grounds and drew a pension for 30 years.  On his death, his widow drew roughly 50% of his pension until her own death 10 years later.  At which point there were no further payments due, nor any death grant.

The family kicked off, demanding to know what had happened to 'all the money their father had paid into the scheme'.  In an attempt to fend off a formal complaint (time consuming and costly) the pensions manager calculated how much he had paid in, against how much he and then his widow had drawn as pensions.  The difference was huge.

The family went ahead with their complaint, on the grounds that the pension manager had been 'lying' as no pension fund could afford to pay out so much more than had been paid in.  They didn't win. 

A DB scheme will never pay out the equivalent of both employee and employer contributions in the event of an early death.  The costs involved would simply be unaffordable.

Thrugelmir

Silvertabby said:

Bravepants said:

At the end of the day if I die then most of my DB pension reverts to the state. I won't have a massive pot to "pass on" (or even need one to "p*ss in" - :-) sorry I couldn't help myself).  My partner would get 37.5% of whatever annual pension I will receive. So all I get is some assured income/benefit for the time I am still alive after finishing work. I might only live for a year after retiring at which point all of my contributions to my pension have been a total waste of time and money - apart from funding others' pensions. There are roughly just over 5 million people who work for the public sector, or 17% of the working population of about 30 million. So, all in all, let's have some perspective eh?

A DB scheme will never pay out the equivalent of both employee and employer contributions in the event of an early death.  The costs involved would simply be unaffordable.

Pooled risk. A concept that's been forgotten in the clamour "to have what's mine". 

doris540

Marcon said:

doris540 said:

With recent events and the what can only be called a slaughtering of Private sector and Personal Pensions due to the stock market and other factors in relation to the virus, will there be a long overdue overhaul of Public sector pensions to try and equal things out.

No, but do keep posting - it gives everyone a good giggle.

Do detect a "Im alrite jack so up yours" scenerio here im not here to make people laugh its not my intention laugh behind your keyboard all you want .....................you sit and read it im sure your time could be better spent elsewhere

Marcon

doris540 said:

Marcon said:

doris540 said:

With recent events and the what can only be called a slaughtering of Private sector and Personal Pensions due to the stock market and other factors in relation to the virus, will there be a long overdue overhaul of Public sector pensions to try and equal things out.

No, but do keep posting - it gives everyone a good giggle.

Do detect a "Im alrite jack so up yours" scenerio here im not here to make people laugh its not my intention laugh behind your keyboard all you want .....................you sit and read it im sure your time could be better spent elsewhere

No, you don't detect any such thing. You have also missed the point that we already have pensions apartheid: just look at all those people stuck in those wretched DB schemes, when they have no-one to whom benefits would be paid after their death, and trying like mad to access the freedoms only open to members of DC arrangements. Most public sector employees will never be able to transfer out, of course, so that option won't be open to them. Ever stopping ranting long enough to ponder that point?

MACKEM99

woolly_wombat said:

doris540 said:

 With a now reported that Public sector workers will enjoy up to eight times better pension return than the private sector. According to the Office for National Statistics, just 11 per cent of workers in the private sector who have a pension are in a generous final salary scheme. This compares to more than nine in ten (92 per cent) in the public sector.

You know what to do.

Go and get a job in the NHS.

Well if you can't beat 'em then you had better go and join 'em - and do a tour in Afghanistan.

kinger101

doris540 said:

Marcon said:

doris540 said:

With recent events and the what can only be called a slaughtering of Private sector and Personal Pensions due to the stock market and other factors in relation to the virus, will there be a long overdue overhaul of Public sector pensions to try and equal things out.

No, but do keep posting - it gives everyone a good giggle.

Do detect a "Im alrite jack so up yours" scenerio here im not here to make people laugh its not my intention laugh behind your keyboard all you want .....................you sit and read it im sure your time could be better spent elsewhere

What exactly is your intention?  If it's to vent your frustration on sympathetic ears, then it looks like you've picked the wrong place. Very few seem to share your point of view, and the few that might you've probably rubbed up the wrong way.

My own view is life isn't fair in many aspects, but the person usually in any best position to improve their own situation is oneself.  Envy at the good fortune of others, perceived or real, isn't going to change your own circumstances one jot.