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Discharged Bankruptcy - Satisfied CCJs?

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Discharged Bankruptcy - Satisfied CCJs?

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Hi,
Following on from seven years of battling with debt incurred during a highly toxic relationship and barely treading water, I declared myself bankrupt last year and have recently been discharged.
My circumstances are vastly different now and the instability leading to the debt / lack of income are long behind me.
I've written to all my old creditors with proof of discharge asking to have my accounts updated as settled etc; and I've opened a LISA which I'm saving the maximum amount towards along with my other half who's also saving the maximum amount towards his. We plan to buy a house three years from now.
That's all fine, I've liaised with a mortgage broker to gain an understanding of the market and feel confident with my financial life moving forwards.
I do have one issue though:
Prior to declaring myself bankrupt, two CCJs were obtained against me.
One from PRA group and one from Moriarty Law.
The CCJ obtained by PRA group is being updated as satisfied.
Moriarty Law are refusing to update the CCJ they obtained against me to show a satisfied balance, despite my account with them showing a £NIL balance following my bankruptcy.

What recourse do I have here? The balance recorded on my CCJ is not representative of my current situation - I now owe them nothing.
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Replies

  • sammy32683sammy32683 Forumite
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    At the start of the threads are 3 main ones. One of these are for post discharge clean up. It tells you how to do everything to get creditors to update your file following discharge. Read that as there is a lot of information so there is no point duplicating it all here. 
  • edited 28 April at 9:04AM
    Fighter1986Fighter1986 Forumite
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    edited 28 April at 9:04AM
    Thank you, yes I've done that and written to all the lenders included in my bankruptcy.
    Moriarty Law are refusing to update the balance reflected against the CCJ they filed against me to show the debt is now satisfied.
    There's no info about CCJs in the "post bankruptcy credit file cleanup" thread, only info about Defaults.

    Can they legally refuse to update the balance reflecting against the CCJ to show in some way that the debt it is associated with is now satisfied?

    They are claiming that as the debt was "written off", they don't need to mark the CCJ as Satisfied 🤔

    Just doesn't sound right to me, as at present it gives anyone who searches my credit file the impression I still owe the money, which I don't. It's been written off. 
  • fatbellyfatbelly Forumite
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    There may be some info on  this on registry trust.

    My understanding is that the ccj entry stays as it is for the 6 years
  • Fighter1986Fighter1986 Forumite
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    I understand the CCJ should remain on my credit file for six years, that's fair, but should it still show that I have an outstanding balance, when I don't?
  • Somerset_La_La_LaSomerset_La_La_La Forumite
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    CCJ will remain for 6 years, as outstanding - unless the creditor agrees to remove it (seems unlikely, they had to pay money to put it on in the first place!).

    It will probably cause problems too. I've got one and due to the idiot mortgage company (several companies!) not knowing the law, it caused chaos. I'm convinced it affects my scoring for unsecured credit too, but can never tell for sure. Will find out in a few days when it drops but bankruptcy is still present, see if the stuff I'm likely to get changes.....!!!

    I do think it's ridiculous that when humans don't know and can't interpret the law correctly, it's highly unlikely automated credit scoring can either. Not much you can do about it though, sadly.

    Bankruptcy is obviously the biggest issue, and many lenders will outright decline on that - but from experience I really don't think the way CCJs are recorded helps.
    Used to work in Underwriting. Only the lender can give a definitive answer to queries
  • edited 29 April at 8:28AM
    Fighter1986Fighter1986 Forumite
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    edited 29 April at 8:28AM
    CCJ will remain for 6 years, as outstanding - unless the creditor agrees to remove it (seems unlikely, they had to pay money to put it on in the first place!).

    It will probably cause problems too. I've got one and due to the idiot mortgage company (several companies!) not knowing the law, it caused chaos. I'm convinced it affects my scoring for unsecured credit too, but can never tell for sure. Will find out in a few days when it drops but bankruptcy is still present, see if the stuff I'm likely to get changes.....!!!

    I do think it's ridiculous that when humans don't know and can't interpret the law correctly, it's highly unlikely automated credit scoring can either. Not much you can do about it though, sadly.

    Bankruptcy is obviously the biggest issue, and many lenders will outright decline on that - but from experience I really don't think the way CCJs are recorded helps.
    Agreed 100%.

    This sounds absurd. I'm still going to fight it.
    As far as I'm concerned, the CCJ has been satisfied by way of an insolvency and should therefore show a satisfied date. PRA group agree with me and I've had written confirmation that they're instructing Judge & Priestly to mark the CCJ they obtained against me as satisfied. 
    I've written a further letter to Moriarty Law which I'll send tonight. I've adapted one of the letter templates here. If they refuse I'll still escalate the matter to the ICO and enclose copies of the correspondence from PRA group to demonstrate that matters can be dealt with better.
    I'm still absolutely convinced that leaving a CCJ which was part of an insolvency marked as outstanding, when the debt has been satisfied, is misrepresentative and therefore a breach of GDPR - your experiences prove this; and I sure don't wish for my other half and I to be in the same boat three years from now when we go to buy a house.

    Were you able to obtain a mortgage in the end? What happened?

    I'll be happy to keep you posted if you like; I think we have the opportunity here to improve things for everyone in our boat.
  • edited 29 April at 8:12PM
    Somerset_La_La_LaSomerset_La_La_La Forumite
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    edited 29 April at 8:12PM
    I never proceeded with that property as the rates I was being offered were far too high - I didn't like the eventual rates offered (with less than 6 months to go to normal prices). A 2 year fix with them, to then remortgage away, isn't that cost effective. Given covid, I might have actually dodged a bullet if house values do drop - but I was certainly unhappy with the relevant mortgage companies at the time!

    I completely agree with what you say. I gave up fighting the CCJ issue after a few years - as I thought by the time I wanted to buy lenders would take a common sense approach, with it being so old. And especially as I work in lending - could I really have moved jobs several times and/or still be approving loans (as they can verify via my employment history I supplied) with a massive CCJ outstanding?! Luckily my employers have all seen sense - sadly they just won't lend to me as I don't meet their bankruptcy rules!

    Just out of curiosity, as it's a soft search, I'm going to re-try it again with Nationwide (failing credit scoring currently) as soon as the CCJ drops off (but with Bankruptcy still on file). If I do then magically pass, it's quite clear the CCJ was the issue all along, as I fell within their bankruptcy policy nearly 2 years ago.

    Unfortunately, proving that would be impossible (scoring periodically changes, and they'll never attribute it to one factor) - unless a lender outright tells you you've been declined due to the CCJ (very unlikely, unless you go to a smaller lender that doesn't credit score). Even if one of the small ones do tell you that, it's technically their error rather than an error by the company that registered the CCJ/the CRAs or Registry Trust, so I'm not sure how you'd actually get it overturned.

    Good luck though with your mortgage / fight though! (Apt username!!) If you do want a mortgage before the CCJs drop, I'd really recommend speaking to an adverse broker. I went with a 'normal' (free) broker as I thought working in mortgages would be enough to just get me over the line with any queries (I anticipated the CCJ one - my broker and I both pushed back via the BDM). The adverse brokers might have better relationships with BDMs (or higher level Managers/decision makers etc.) than the broker I used though - particularly when asking around at the adverse lenders.

    Due to the volume of business some of the adverse firms must place with a relatively small pool of lenders, if the broker + client are adamant the sky is blue, then I think those firms would be inclined to properly look into the issue and confirm the CCJs really aren't outstanding (although 1 adverse lender did shockingly tell me broker they'd 'never heard of this issue', which is quite worrying!!). My app wasn't to an adverse lender, so they just couldn't be bothered to investigate it, saw it as outside of criteria and basically said "computer says no" to all CCJ questions/proofs etc. I sent in.

    My issue was amplified as the CCJ is so large (over £3k). If it had been say £200 the lender might have still (wrongly!) believed it was outstanding, but have 'let it go' because it was so old/would've been in criteria anyway. Likewise scoring with a £3k CCJ on file is going to be tough whether it shows as satisfied or not (but I did pass scoring at the above lender!!) - but, as far as I'm aware, it is incorrect for it to show as it does.  If your CCJs are like £50 each then I wouldn't worry too much. If it's larger then from experience I think it will cause you issues, unless there's any way you persuade the creditors to mark them as satisfied. 

    If you aren't planning to apply for any credit, you could just continually dispute via the complaints department (of the lenders/DCAs) + at all 3 CRAs and FOS and the ICO until they all get fed up with you. Don't know if you could hound them into submission that way! If you submit CRA disputes though, you'll get Notices of Correction (which are effectively worthless, as everyone argues with adverse but lenders can't just take their word for it), which will slow down your apps/mean everything will be referred. Not necessarily a bad thing for a mortgage (just means you'll be waiting around longer for an answer), but for unsecured debt I personally take the view it's better to have no disputes and to sneak through on a 'instant accept' than be referred and have a human dig into my history (which, admittedly, is poor). Even if the referral passes scoring, as it's with a human, they could decline. If it's auto accepted, that's very unlikely to be overturned (for unsecured products).

    I just can't wait for the CCJ & BR to finally drop so I can pop in to Nationwide with no issues at all!
    Used to work in Underwriting. Only the lender can give a definitive answer to queries
  • edited 30 April at 10:09AM
    Fighter1986Fighter1986 Forumite
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    edited 30 April at 10:09AM
    Thanks for all the detail, it's really helpful and I wish you the best of luck; I'd be really curious to know how it goes with another mortgage DIP once the CCJ drops off your credit file; if there's a systemic issue with the way these are handled in bankruptcies the ICO might be more inclined to look at whether the current process is correct if they receive more than one complaint.
    Thankfully, the CCJ which Moriarty Law obtained against me was for under £500, so from what you're saying this would pose fewer issues than if it had been a four or five figure CCJ?
    The other CCJ obtained against me from PRA group was five figures, but it will have fallen off my credit file before my OH and I are in a position to put an offer in on a house. 
    Definitely wish you all the best.

    This is the letter I've adapted from one of the templates here which I'm sending to Moriarty Law:

    To Whom It May Concern:

     

    After consultation with both the Information Commissioner and the Credit Reference Agencies, I am writing directly to you to request that you formally update the court records relating to my account with you in accordance with the Data Protection Act.

     

    I was declared bankrupt on 15th April 2019 and subsequently discharged on 15th April 2020, and Moriarty law was included within the Bankruptcy. For your convenience I have attached both my Bankruptcy Order and Discharge Notification.

     

    Currently the information that you have recorded against my name with the Court, and therefore Credit Reference Agencies is factually incorrect, and despite written requests to your customer services, as yet your company has failed to correct the entries as required.

     

    It is required that you mark the account and court records in some way as to indicate that it is settled or satisfied, in accordance with the Data Protection Act.

     

    The Information Commissioner has indicated that I should allow you 28 calendar days from the date you receive this letter to comply, during this time you are requested either to update the Credit Reference Files correctly (of all three Credit Reference Agencies) or notify me in writing the reasons that you refuse to.

     

    After the 28 days have elapsed the Information Commissioner has requested that I inform them if your company fails to update the records so that they may take any necessary enforcement action against your company.

     

    Please note that if this account falls within the remit of the FOS, I will also be submitting a separate complaint to them regarding this matter if the Court and by-proxy, Credit Reference Files are not correctly updated.

     

    I have copied the relevant information provided by the Information Commissioner as an attachment to this request.

     

    Yours faithfully

     

     

     

    Fighter1986

     

    Enc:

     

    Bankruptcy Order

    Discharge Notification

     

     

     

     

     

    Relevant Extracts from Bankruptcy - A Guide for the Public – 2010-2015 inc issued by the ICO

     

    Bankruptcy

     

    When someone applies for credit, lenders look at information about their financial standing held by credit reference agencies. When someone becomes bankrupt, the bankruptcy is recorded on their credit reference file along with other information.

     

    What happens to defaulted accounts on my credit reference file?

     

    After you have been discharged from your bankruptcy you can send proof of your discharge to all the lenders whose debts were included in your bankruptcy. Those lenders should then mark the entry on your credit reference file to show that you no longer owe money on that account (perhaps by marking the entry as ‘partially satisfied’ or ‘partially settled’ or in some other way).

     

    Once the lender has changed the information on the entry, if you make any new credit applications the prospective lender will be able to see that you do not owe any more money on that account. You can ask the credit reference agency to add a statement called a 'notice of correction' to the default entry. In your statement, you can explain that the entry was included in your bankruptcy which is now discharged.

     

    If the lender refuses to change the date of the default or mark it as ‘satisfied’ or ‘settled’ or to indicate in another way that you have fulfilled your obligations to that lender then you can write to us at: Information Commissioner, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF.


  • Fighter1986Fighter1986 Forumite
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    Update:

    As of today, the CCJ Moriarty Law obtained against me, no longer appears on my Equifax credit file. It's completely vanished.

    I won't jump the gun yet as my free Experian and Trans Union reports haven't updated yet and I haven't had any formal communication from the court or Moriarty Law, but on the face of it it would appear they've had it set aside. 
  • mwarbymwarby Forumite
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    If you complained to Equifax (or via a credit reporting site which uses Equifax) it's possible that they have just supressed the information pending Moirarty Law responding to the complaint

    for  mortgage purposes the last post I made on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6141139/is-dro-still-visible-on-file-after-six-years#latest maybe of interest - the TLDR being you or your broker would likely be asked if you have ever had a CCJ, a question which IMHO it'd be very unwise to answer incorrectly(although its not end of world, lenders will access the date and amount, it's not always a hard no)

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