Landlord, via Letting Agent, has just dumped a huge utility bill on me after two and a half years

diggingdude

how is the tax on your rent being paid?  Make sure you won't get hit there also

greatcrested

eddddy said:

So on one hand, your tenancy agreement says you have agreed:

"To pay all charges falling due in respect of the use and supply at the Premises of any water and environmental services, electricity, gas, communal energy, oil or other relevant fuel and telephone services during the tenancy.

But on the other hand, that's clearly a 'catch-all' clause - for example, it mentions 'oil' - which is presumably irrelevant to your flat. So would a 'reasonable person' assume that if 'oil' is irrelevant, then it's likely that 'communal energy' is irrelevant as well - as nobody had mentioned a 'communal energy' system to you?

But then I guess a 'reasonable person' might have started to wonder where their heating and hot water was coming from.

It's not unusual for tenancy agreements to have 'catch-all' clauses like this. They make clear that the rent is just for the property itself and that all running costs are the tenant's responsibility. It is the tenant's responsibility to ensure that he takes over, and pays, all the relevant accounts for services he uses.

A reasonable person would not assume that because there is no oil, there is no communal energy. A reasonable person would ensure he knew what services he was using.

But I'm not even convinced the 'reasonable person' test is relevant here. The charges for electricity, phone, communal heating etc are due, whether a reasonable person would be expected to be aware of them or not!

[Deleted User]

diggingdude said:

how is the tax on your rent being paid?  Make sure you won't get hit there also

If the rent is being paid to the letting agent then the OP doesn't need to concern themselves with the landlord's tax affairs.

Comms69

Jimbo8x8x said:

I already posted this but probably not in the most suitable forum, so as suggested I'm posting here as well...
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6133234/landlord-just-sent-me-a-2000-utility-bill-that-i-didnt-know-existed/p1

I've been renting a flat in London for about 2 and a half years. In that period I've been paying Electricity and Water Rates... as per the initial instructions I got from the Letting Agent. Unknown to me there is another utility provider for 'Heating and Hot Water'. I only learned about this last week when the Letting Agent sent me an email with a picture of a bill which has an outstanding balance of £1911.

In a rather crass email, the letting agent has simply said that although it's probably a shock, it is my responsibility to settle the outstanding balance. The email includes a photograph of a bill in the name of the landlord (a Chinese woman who as far I as know doesn't live in the UK) and the address on it is that of the letting agent. I've no idea where the bills have been going in the last 28-months, I've never received any correspondence from this provider. They also included a form for me to complete and send to the supplier, whom they also cc'd on the email.

I've since asked them who's responsibility it was to setup an account with the provider. They failed to answer and instead gave me an excuse, saying that 'until recently' they were not aware of the provider themselves because it wasn't included in the handover documentation they received from the developers (the building is three years old, and I'm the second tenant in the property). They went on to suggest that I should have received a registration form in my 'welcome pack', which is basically the homeowner manuals. I've since checked and there isn't one.

I'm at the stage now where I've filled-out the form they emailed to me. All I need to do is sign and email it to the supplier, at which point they will transfer that debt to me.

So until I send them the form I won't know what the exact bill is. It might be £1911, or it might be less if that current bill includes some months from before I moved-in. However, if it is £1911 then it works out to an average of £68.27 a month on heating and hot water. On the providers website, it says an average winter bill is £70. That means, even in the hottest of summer months, I'm still being charged something very close to their average winter bill. I think it goes without saying that I would have been immediately on the phone to them if I received a £68.27 bill in July, when I'd not used any heating for months. Of course I couldn't do that because I didn't know they, or the bill, existed. Seems very unfair.

I can't contact the landlord... all I have is their name, and like I said, I think they are overseas and probably don't speak English anyway. The Letting Agency seem to have washed their hands of it and I can't contact them on the telephone because they are all working from home and seemingly don't take calls. I can't even speak to the energy supplier (East London Energy) because they to are all working from home and their phone system only goes to voice mail. I have exchanged a couple of emails with them, but they are just telling me to complete the form so they can issue the bills.

Any thoughts on what I could/should do ?

Thanks

Sounds like the landlord is the person liable. If they choose to sue you for it, then you can decide what to pay.

Hasbeen

Jimbo8x8x said:

I already posted this but probably not in the most suitable forum, so as suggested I'm posting here as well...
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6133234/landlord-just-sent-me-a-2000-utility-bill-that-i-didnt-know-existed/p1

Op it was not a suggestion to post 2 identical threads it was:
"You may want to ask a board guide to move this to the House Buying, Renting & Selling board - they're much more clued up on things like this." 

You now have 2 threads running with posters replying in both.

Semple

Would the backbilling rules not apply here? 

I guess the biggest part of the story is missing. I.e. has this supplier been regularly sending bills to your landlord and they've been ignoring it - if so i'm not sure why it's taken 30 months to finally get to this state, the supplier would have normally sent debt collection letters by that point. Or have they only recently realised that they're not getting payment from you/your landlord, in which case the backbilling rules should mean they're only allowed to bill you for the last 12 months, which might at least cut the bill in half. 

princeofpounds

OK, researching this, it seems that this is complex, then simple, then complex again.

Why complex? Community or district heating networks are not covered by the same regulations as electricity and gas (under OFGEM) and so the normal regulations governing reselling do not apply. Seems the government spent a lot of effort on EU environmental directives in the sector in 2014 and little on consumer protection. It's a recognised deficiency in the law (organisations like Which have been campaigning on it) but the wheels turn slowly.

You may find some relief under unfair terms in consumer contracts law, but I suspect it's unlikely in this case.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

But that makes it simple - you contracted to pay this type of bill, you owe the money to your LL. I think any court would reasonably assume that you would know there was heating and satisfy yourself with how that was provided. They may give you some timing leeway because of the lax billing, but probably not absolve you of the responsibility.

Then it gets complex again - what to do? If it wasn't for the matter of the deposit and you didn't mind leaving soon, it could be an option to not pay. You are liable to the LL, but not to the provider of the heating. There's always a possibility that a China-based landlord won't bother with legal action. Certainly most letting agents will not do it on behalf of a landlord - they are not lawyers. Even if the LL does go legal, you could settle at any stage in the process. Even with a CCJ it doesn't go on your record if you pay promptly. But it's not very ethical.

Personally I would pay up, perhaps in stages to make it manageable. And then I would give my notice to leave at the first opportunity, unless perhaps they agree to lower the rent on renewal.