Rowing m/c return - online purchase - "unnecessary handling"

Manxman_in_exile

We bought a rowing m/c online for about £220.  It’s quite a popular one and we researched reviews of it before buying – seemed like a good reliable buy.  It was bought via Amazon from a 3rd party.

It arrived earlier this week and we’ve assembled it.  Upon trying it out we’re not happy with the design of the machine as it does not allow for full range of movement on the stroke.  (My wife is an experienced rower and knows what she’s talking about).  Thus it isn’t suitable for what it’s been bought for.  (Just to clarify – it might be suitable for general fitness use, but it’s not suitable as a rowing m/c for an experienced rower).

We’re going to return it for a refund but the retailer has informed us that “if the item has been used or opened, a minimum of 20% will be deducted from your refund upon evaluation of the item”.  Of course we’ve had to open and assemble it and use it to find out that it’s not suitable.  But it’s only been used for about 5 minutes maximum, and certainly no more than you would use it in a shop to try before purchase. I understand that under the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013 a retailer can make a deduction from reimbursement for loss in value as a result of unnecessary handling but I cannot see what we have done constitutes unnecessary handling.

Our understanding is that for online purchases, we are entitled to cancel the contract within 14 days of delivery for any reason (including a simple change of mind), and that the supplier must make a full refund of the purchase price (including delivery charges).  We understand that we will probably(?) have to pay the return carriage costs ourselves.

Are we right in thinking we should be able to get a full refund?

 

PS – just a couple of further points for clarification:

1.    I’m assuming our remedy is with the retailer rather than Amazon?

2.    My wife (as a rower) is of the opinion it is not fit for purpose, but I’m not so sure as it does get generally favourable reviews just as a piece of fitness equipment.  Is that fit for purpose or not?

3.    Assuming it’s fit for purpose and we are cancelling/returning it because it’s not suitable for our purposes,  then we need to pay the return carriage cost only if that is explicitly stated in the T&Cs?

Hope that all makes sense.  It's a bit late at night to concentrate!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

(10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—

(a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);

(b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(12) For the purposes of paragraph (9) handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop.

As you wouldn't be able to open a box and assemble the product in a shop I believe a deduction would generally be permitted (the only consideration I can see is that in store you may find a display model to test out), however any reduction must reflect the actual diminished value, the retailer stating a minimum of 20% may be placing themselves on shaky ground by appearing to be imposing a restocking fee. 

Noting paragraph 11, what information did you receive via durable means, typically on paper with the goods or via email (a link to website T&Cs in an email are not classed as durable) regarding your right to cancel?

I believe regarding returns Amazon expect the seller to refund something rather than 100% but whether their A-Z process covers any additional amount not refunded I'm unsure.

If there's some aspect that was detailed regarding the machine that isn't present then the goods wouldn't be as described, a very quick Google (and with no knowledge of rowing machines) suggests £220 isn't your bargain basement range but equally appears to be a long way off top of the range so it may not be appropriate to judge the equipment by the standards of a professional sportsperson.  

visidigi

Any experienced rower would know not to buy a cheaper machine for home gym use. They would be more than likely to go to a concept2 or something similar to the gym-standard equipment (yes its VERY expensive, but the proper thing usually is and when you come to sell it, the depreciation is very small indeed).
So a £220 machine is going to be fit for purpose of home use in the sellers eyes, and the reviews would seemingly back this up (admittedly, they can be far from trusted).
1. Yes
2. I think it would be for the standard expected of it.
3.The post above covered this...

photome

I thought exactly the same as visidigi re an experienced rower buying a £200 machine, at that price its only going to be good for home fitness. You wouldnt be able to put together and test a rowing machine in store. I think they are right in deducting an amount

neilmcl

Can you share a link of the rowing machine in question?

I tend to agree with last 2 posters as it sounds like this machine is fine for general fitness/home gym use which is what it's probably aimed at. For a machine aimed specifically at experienced rowers then you'd clearly be looking at a much higher spec'd and subsequently higher priced machine, and probably not from the likes of Amazon.

By all means exercise (no pun intended) your right to cancel under the CCRs but I don't think you'd get anywhere claiming it's not fit for purpose. 

Manxman_in_exile

Thanks everybody.

Agree about the Concept II.  As my wife uses these both at her rowing club (10 mins away) and at her gym (5 mins away), she's never bothered to buy one for home.  When the full implications of the lockdown etc hit her, it was too late to find a Concept II (I think everywhere was sold out) so she had to settle for whatever she could get at the time.  It's actually a rather good m/c and I would say it's perfectly suitable for ordinary CV fitness use.  (If I didn't do a lot of running, cycling and weights I'd keep it for myself!).

Anyhow, unknown to me, the missus had already queried their "we'll only pay a maximum of 80% if you've opened it etc", and this morning they came back and said that that wasn't applicable in this case and they would refund the full cost.  They are also arranging return carriage - which happily surprised me.(*)

She'll have to find a Concept II somewhere now...

(*)  I think they're sold out of that model again so I suspect it'll be re-sold as soon as they get it back so they're not really losing out.

Manxman_in_exile

I was reading another thread and thought I'd come back to this one.

 

Just to confirm that we returned the rowing m/c with no problems (apart from spending a couple of hours disassembling and repacking it - we should video'd unpacking and assembling it!) it was picked up by the courier, no hassle, and got a full refund.

 

My wife then ordered a Concept II which eventually arrived three weeks ago.  (There was no stock left in the UK and she had to wait for it to be made and shipped from Vermont).

 

It's not cheap and it's rather large, but it is an amazing piece of kit.  I don't row (I run and cycle and we have our own weights) but I am definitely going to use it a lot!  (And she will of course save a gym membership as the rowing m/c was the only reason she went to the gym.)

custardy

Manxman_in_exile said:

I was reading another thread and thought I'd come back to this one.

 

Just to confirm that we returned the rowing m/c with no problems (apart from spending a couple of hours disassembling and repacking it - we should video'd unpacking and assembling it!) it was picked up by the courier, no hassle, and got a full refund.

 

My wife then ordered a Concept II which eventually arrived three weeks ago.  (There was no stock left in the UK and she had to wait for it to be made and shipped from Vermont).

 

It's not cheap and it's rather large, but it is an amazing piece of kit.  I don't row (I run and cycle and we have our own weights) but I am definitely going to use it a lot!  (And she will of course save a gym membership as the rowing m/c was the only reason she went to the gym.)

Just looked. At £860 for the model D it equates to over 3.5 years of gym membership for me

visidigi

custardy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I was reading another thread and thought I'd come back to this one.

 

Just to confirm that we returned the rowing m/c with no problems (apart from spending a couple of hours disassembling and repacking it - we should video'd unpacking and assembling it!) it was picked up by the courier, no hassle, and got a full refund.

 

My wife then ordered a Concept II which eventually arrived three weeks ago.  (There was no stock left in the UK and she had to wait for it to be made and shipped from Vermont).

 

It's not cheap and it's rather large, but it is an amazing piece of kit.  I don't row (I run and cycle and we have our own weights) but I am definitely going to use it a lot!  (And she will of course save a gym membership as the rowing m/c was the only reason she went to the gym.)

Just looked. At £860 for the model D it equates to over 3.5 years of gym membership for me

Yes it does.
But these things lose VERY little value, I had one for three years, got a knee injury which means I would never be able to use the machine to its potential. Sold it for £90 less than I paid new!
They are exceptional machines and well worth the investment. IMO

Manxman_in_exile

Yes.  My wife had been looking at a second hand one for about £650 but it was gone before she made her mind up.

Manxman_in_exile

custardy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I was reading another thread and thought I'd come back to this one.

 

Just to confirm that we returned the rowing m/c with no problems (apart from spending a couple of hours disassembling and repacking it - we should video'd unpacking and assembling it!) it was picked up by the courier, no hassle, and got a full refund.

 

My wife then ordered a Concept II which eventually arrived three weeks ago.  (There was no stock left in the UK and she had to wait for it to be made and shipped from Vermont).

 

It's not cheap and it's rather large, but it is an amazing piece of kit.  I don't row (I run and cycle and we have our own weights) but I am definitely going to use it a lot!  (And she will of course save a gym membership as the rowing m/c was the only reason she went to the gym.)

Just looked. At £860 for the model D it equates to over 3.5 years of gym membership for me

They're bomb proof - quality construction, last for years.  And I can use it too.