Employer claiming no money so won't furlough

chilluk7

My son works as a bar man at the local upmarket wedding venue as his part time job whilst at Uni - he has been there over 2 years, and works lots of hours for them, helping them out with gardening, erecting marquees etc. He has a zero hour contract but averages 15-20 hours a week at least over the last 2 years (some weeks does 50 or 60 hours). He has gone above and beyond for them with the hours he has done, and working under less than ideal conditions (lack of staff, having to deal with rowdy guests as they are too tight to pay for security etc).

Since the lockdown obviously all weddings are cancelled - the employer has refused to pay the staff citing no money since lockdown. However this presumably now hampers any chance of my son and the other staff of being furloughed and receiving something? As I read it the employer has to pay them, and claim it back. They are refusing to pay, and really to enter into any sort of dialogue with the staff. He is also owed some holiday pay which they are also withholding currently.

Can they somehow force the employer to place them on the furlough scheme? Does the employer actually have to physically pay them now, and claim back later? I understand cashflow has dried up. Can they run the payroll as if they were paying them and then forward on what they can claim later on? It seems like the staff are all stuck because the owners don't leave any cash in the kitty (they do have nice cars though...).

If nothing can be done, at the very least can we check that they don't put in fraudulent claims later on, as we wouldn't put anything past them?!

Presumably also they have no business withholding holiday pay?

Many Thanks

lincroft1710

They should not be withholding holiday pay if it is owed.

As has been said on this board on numerous occasions, it is the employer's choice to furlough or not, legal pressure cannot be brought upon them if they choose not to furlough.

Mrsn

For works already done they must pay him that is clear.

He cannot though force them to use the furlough scheme.... that will always be their choice to do so. I appreciate that is very unfair but that is the case here. If they have physically no money to pay them upfront if they were to use the scheme then they obviously don’t see the benefit in doing so.

chilluk7

Thanks both for the speedy replies. I thought that might be the case - effectively I guess he is redundant at this point as they have no work? Obviously the employer hasn't officially laid them off and will be expecting them to come back when there is work.

Holiday pay - is the only way to force this to be paid now, if the employer won't officially lay them off, to resign?

Regarding them doing something dodgy later on - any way of checking if your own details have been used in a claim? They are a bit fly by night so nothing would surprise anyone.

poppy12345

The employer and employee has to both agree and sign for the furlough so it's unlikely they will claim fraudulently. As i advised, if they have no money to pay holiday pay owed at the moment then i'm unsure how he can force them to pay. Hopefully sometime in the future there will be a job for him to return to.

RyanHello

poppy12345 said:

The employer and employee has to both agree and sign for the furlough so it's unlikely they will claim fraudulently. As i advised, if they have no money to pay holiday pay owed at the moment then i'm unsure how he can force them to pay. Hopefully sometime in the future there will be a job for him to return to.

I very much doubt the OPs son would go back to work for them. The staff should run to the hills. Doesn't see like a very nice company to work for.

chilluk7

RyanHello said:

poppy12345 said:

The employer and employee has to both agree and sign for the furlough so it's unlikely they will claim fraudulently. As i advised, if they have no money to pay holiday pay owed at the moment then i'm unsure how he can force them to pay. Hopefully sometime in the future there will be a job for him to return to.

I very much doubt the OPs son would go back to work for them. The staff should run to the hills. Doesn't see like a very nice company to work for.

Yeah I think once he does get what is owed that might be the last shift he ever does for them!