Value of Endowment plummets

barryd999

badger09 said:

barryd999 said:

Bit more info. I had a chat with a very helpful L&G advisor this morning.  Apparently I can transfer the fund to a normal ISA and select from some different funds if I terminate then life cover policy.  At least I think that is what she said.  So they are gong to send me details of other funds that would be available should I choose to do that.  So perhaps one option might be to do that and get out of the current fund when the time is right and into something more secure (if such a fund exists right now).  As we can jointly put £40k per year in on top maybe we could start transferring other funds sat in banks etc to that to hopefully make a better yield.  Does any of that make sense?   Funds up to £37k today.

Please don't make any hasty decisions.

I think I suggested a while ago that you could probably transfer from a FTSE All Share Tracker to something more diverse and less risky, while still inside the ISA wrapper. 

Just to be clear, while you can 'jointly' pay in £40k of new money into S&S ISAs, they are Individual products, so you and your wife would need an S&S ISA each.

Even if you decide to leave your ISA with L&G until maturity, either in its current form or in a different fund, there is no need to tie yourself & your wife to that provider for future S&S ISA investments.

Thanks Badger thats great advice.  I am pretty sure I wont be leaving it until October as it is as I think its almost certain to dip again (based on what I have been told and feel myself).  L&G are supposed to be emailing me the choices of funds.  I will probably get shot down in flames for this but is it worth talking to any of the banks (I have several accounts) about what they can advise and offer?  I just need something thats reasonably safe that is going to make a bit more than inflation hopefully.  I have other pots of money just rotting in savings accounts not making much and then there is my Utmost Pension pot to decide upon before the end of this month.  The whole thing is starting to interest me a bit more now but I still think I need guidance from a professional.  You cant become an expert by posting on a forum or reading stuff online overnight I dont think.  I know Lloyds do this sort of thing with a full assessment which takes a couple of hours. Should I speak to them or run a mile from the banks?  

dunstonh

I know Lloyds do this sort of thing with a full assessment which takes a couple of hours. Should I speak to them or run a mile from the banks?  

Lloyds do not.   They are sales reps offering their own product. They are not authorised or regulated to provide independent advice.  They can only discuss their own product range.

AnotherJoe

barryd999 said:

badger09 said:

barryd999 said:

Bit more info. I had a chat with a very helpful L&G advisor this morning.  Apparently I can transfer the fund to a normal ISA and select from some different funds if I terminate then life cover policy.  At least I think that is what she said.  So they are gong to send me details of other funds that would be available should I choose to do that.  So perhaps one option might be to do that and get out of the current fund when the time is right and into something more secure (if such a fund exists right now).  As we can jointly put £40k per year in on top maybe we could start transferring other funds sat in banks etc to that to hopefully make a better yield.  Does any of that make sense?   Funds up to £37k today.

Please don't make any hasty decisions.

I think I suggested a while ago that you could probably transfer from a FTSE All Share Tracker to something more diverse and less risky, while still inside the ISA wrapper. 

Just to be clear, while you can 'jointly' pay in £40k of new money into S&S ISAs, they are Individual products, so you and your wife would need an S&S ISA each.

Even if you decide to leave your ISA with L&G until maturity, either in its current form or in a different fund, there is no need to tie yourself & your wife to that provider for future S&S ISA investments.

Thanks Badger thats great advice.  I am pretty sure I wont be leaving it until October as it is as I think its almost certain to dip again (based on what I have been told and feel myself).  L&G are supposed to be emailing me the choices of funds.  I will probably get shot down in flames for this but is it worth talking to any of the banks (I have several accounts) about what they can advise and offer?  I just need something thats reasonably safe that is going to make a bit more than inflation hopefully.  I have other pots of money just rotting in savings accounts not making much and then there is my Utmost Pension pot to decide upon before the end of this month.  The whole thing is starting to interest me a bit more now but I still think I need guidance from a professional.  You cant become an expert by posting on a forum or reading stuff online overnight I dont think.  I know Lloyds do this sort of thing with a full assessment which takes a couple of hours. Should I speak to them or run a mile from the banks?  

Run two miles. Banks are the last places you should speak to. Not independent and expensive. 

Find an IFA.  

barryd999

One of my close friends entrusted his life savings (close to a million) with an IFA (An official one apparently) and he turned out to be a fraudster and ran off with the lot.   An extreme example I guess but how do you tell the "Arthur Daileys" from the genuine article?  What about L&G themselves?  Presumably if they have a set of products and funds they will have advisors that will advise you.  I Dont mind paying for advice I just dont know who to trust.

AnotherJoe

barryd999 said:

One of my close friends entrusted his life savings (close to a million) with an IFA (An official one apparently) and he turned out to be a fraudster and ran off with the lot.   An extreme example I guess but how do you tell the "Arthur Daileys" from the genuine article?  What about L&G themselves?  Presumably if they have a set of products and funds they will have advisors that will advise you.  I Dont mind paying for advice I just dont know who to trust.

Well, that is maybe the equivalent of wearing a seat belt and being trapped in a car and dying from a fire.

Odds hugely against it but s*** happens. I'd have thought though tat if they were a proper IFA they woudl have had the appropriate insurance behind them? But i guess many woudl never check. That situation is similar a crooked solicitor running off with the proceeds of your house sale and you'd expect the solicitors coverage to pay up in that case. If they had it.

I can think of a few protections no doubt there are others;

- Invest via a larger firm that is still independent.

- Wise up and become your own IFA.

- Invest with a large broker (or across several) , the likes of ii, i-web, HL, etc, and pay for advice on an ongoing or intermittent basis, where the IFA does not have direct control of your money.  Once a year (or whatever) they would recommend you do X,Y,Z with your investments and cash but you action their recommendations.

I am mildly surprised that more dont do the latter, that way, Dunstonh can never cash in and run off to barbados with his floozies and your money, and perhaps being a bit more hands on, over time you can gain the expertise and confidence to DIY.

Voyager2002

Thanks Badger thats great advice.  I am pretty sure I wont be leaving it until October as it is as I think its almost certain to dip again (based on what I have been told and feel myself).  L&G are supposed to be emailing me the choices of funds.  I will probably get shot down in flames for this but is it worth talking to any of the banks (I have several accounts) about what they can advise and offer?  I just need something thats reasonably safe that is going to make a bit more than inflation hopefully.  I have other pots of money just rotting in savings accounts not making much and then there is my Utmost Pension pot to decide upon before the end of this month.  The whole thing is starting to interest me a bit more now but I still think I need guidance from a professional.  You cant become an expert by posting on a forum or reading stuff online overnight I dont think.  I know Lloyds do this sort of thing with a full assessment which takes a couple of hours. Should I speak to them or run a mile from the banks?  

As others have said, avoid the banks.

You might care to do this Open University module: it is free and would probably take a couple of afternoons:
http://www.open.ac.uk/business-school-research/pufin/course-modules/managing-my-investments

Since the sum involved is relatively small, it might not be cost-effective for you to pay for investment advice. You will probably end up choosing a product similar to Vanguard Lifestyle 80 but should understand the steps that lead to that choice.

trickydicky14

Nothing to add to OP situation that has already been said but wanted to say its great how the rest of you are trying to point barryd999 in the right direction,
credit to you.

dunstonh

One of my close friends entrusted his life savings (close to a million) with an IFA (An official one apparently) and he turned out to be a fraudster and ran off with the lot. 

That sort of thing is so rare that it would be headline news. 

In extreme example I guess but how do you tell the "Arthur Daileys" from the genuine article?

Being regulated for starters.  I wonder if your friend was hit by a scammer rather than an IFA.    Over half of people seeing an FA think they are seeing an IFA and there are plenty of examples of people caught be scammers who pretended to be regulated but were not.

What about L&G themselves?  Presumably if they have a set of products and funds they will have advisors that will advise you. 

They do not.

barryd999

Thanks again.  We did talk to a couple of Investment companies a year or two back. I think one of them was The Wesleyan?  Guy turned up and talked to us for a while and we did a risk level assessment with him and the other guy that came (Cant remember which company that was). Both were recommended by friends on a forum I am heavily involved with. the chap from The Wesleyan reckoned you wouldn't see much in your first year but on average you could expect 7% going forward which seemed a bit too good to be true to me.  I think we were looking at investing £100k and trying to get a bit of income from it down the line. As it turns out now, our income is just about enough to survive on and not live like paupers but as I may have mentioned, we are both 54, I am now disabled and can only do bits of work from home and my wife does not work so the pot of money and small Pension pot we have now needs to last us until we croak I guess so I just want to see it do the best possible in a difficult environment.  
I reckon with the ISA, other bits of money stuffed in banks and whatever is in my Pension pot which transferred from Equitable life to Utmost in January its maybe £200-250k.   Not a lot but it is what it is and I guess its why I need to make it work as hard as possible.

I dont mind paying management fees or even advice fees as long as I know Im not being ripped off and we are going to see some kind of half decent return but both our assessments came back as being slightly leaning towards being risk averse. Perhaps though some of that is just ignorance. 

The guy that got ripped off by the way, I think it happened twice!  I Cant remember the story properly now but I think it was also a long time ago. 

dunstonh

The guy that got ripped off by the way, I think it happened twice!  I Cant remember the story properly now but I think it was also a long time ago. 

Increasingly makes it sound like a scam.   Once you get scammed, you end up a mugs list that gets passed around with scammers.          When you use an IFA, you do not pay the money to an IFA.   it goes direct to the investment company that the IFA recommends. None of it passes through the IFA.  On withdrawals, they go direct to the bank of the client. Not the IFA.    

Both were recommended by friends on a forum

Sales reps are not the types to be used.   FAs are restricted.  IFAs are whole of market.     Some sales forces are good at brainwashing their clients.   You should see the number that buy into the Church of SJP.  it can be very difficult to ween them off even when all the facts are produced.