PCN received from Horizon - Incorrect name on PCN

Fruitcake

sailor1900 said:

Hi RedX

Redx said:

I assume that Horizon failed to include the hire docs so probably failed POFA anyway

Thats correct - no other documents received other than the single page PCN.

Redx said:

just appeal the current pcn as keeper with one of the edna basher template appeals from the first post in the newbies faq sticky thread

Horizon have no idea who was driving, so keep it that way , they cannot access the DVLA system TWICE and no point because they would obtain RK details which are correct and they already have those, the hire company being the RK

the DVLA do not keep a database of drivers , its the numpties who tell the parking companies who was driving that lose

Not sure this PCN can be appealed as the keeper - the hire company is the keeper? With only one name on the hire agreement, could it be inferred that the hirer is the driver?

I've checked the templates and will use one - thanks!

You appeal as hirer/lessee because you are the day to day keeper as opposed to being the registered keeper. We know what we are talking about.
As already pointed out, the hire company cannot possibly have known who was driving; they only know the hirer's name and it is the hirer who received the PCN, not the driver.
Anyone with suitable insurance could have been driving with your permission, including me, a valet driver, garage mechanic, friend, family member etcetera. No assumption can be made in law as to the driver's identity because it cannot be known without proof or an admission from someone daft enough to tell the scammers.
At the moment, you are protected by the PoFA 2012 as long as the driver is not identified. 

There are three hire/lease car appeal templates written by edna basher in the NEWBIES. One is for fleet managers so use one of the other two that matches your (the hirer/lessee/day to day keeper's) situation. 

Redx

sailor1900 said:

Hi RedX

Redx said:

I assume that Horizon failed to include the hire docs so probably failed POFA anyway

Thats correct - no other documents received other than the single page PCN.

Redx said:

just appeal the current pcn as keeper with one of the edna basher template appeals from the first post in the newbies faq sticky thread

Horizon have no idea who was driving, so keep it that way , they cannot access the DVLA system TWICE and no point because they would obtain RK details which are correct and they already have those, the hire company being the RK

the DVLA do not keep a database of drivers , its the numpties who tell the parking companies who was driving that lose

Not sure this PCN can be appealed as the keeper - the hire company is the keeper? With only one name on the hire agreement, could it be inferred that the hirer is the driver?

I've checked the templates and will use one - thanks!

Wrong

The hire company is the registered keeper , not the keeper

Anyone can be a daily Keeper , but only one entity can be a registered keeper , for clarity here are the entities involved , who may have more than one role , but never tell them the identity of the driver

Owner
Registered keeper
Keeper
Hirer or lessee (day to day keeper)
Driver

I would advise you not to use the top 2 or the bottom one , but as a hirer who was the day to day keeper , for which the hire docs are crucial , as you found out in POFA , hence all the advice you were given

We already knew your discoveries , hence the advice given , so once you realise that a hirer is also a keeper and now you know that Horizon have failed POFA you will realise that you win on the POFA technicality , a cast iron set in law technicality

Inferring is not a fact and it could have been one of tens of thousands who were driving , including myself , the police , a mechanic , another driver with their own insurance policy

Do not overthink this , we know the reasons why and have done so since Oct 2012 when POFA arrived , POFA is the strongest technical argument that a keeper has , even a keeper who was a hirer

Infer does not hold up against knowing , knowing is by an admission from the driver

KeithP

sailor1900 said:

I will contact the hire company to see what documents were actually sent. If the incorrect documents were sent (it will be outside of the 28 day limit), then POFA will have failed.

Thanks, to all!

I would not be asking the hire co what was sent. It may well prompt them to sent the right stuff.

Leave it be. Horizon have failed to send you the right docs - for whatever reason.

MistyZ

Just had a quick look through this thread.  So just to say - trust the regulars on this.  Check out other hire car threads & you'll soon find out that the 'formula' they're outlining works. 

I like hire car appeals, I almost enjoyed contesting one myself!  And yes, that won.   

Coupon-mad

KeithP said:

sailor1900 said:

I will contact the hire company to see what documents were actually sent. If the incorrect documents were sent (it will be outside of the 28 day limit), then POFA will have failed.

Thanks, to all!

I would not be asking the hire co what was sent. It may well prompt them to sent the right stuff.

Leave it be. Horizon have failed to send you the right docs - for whatever reason.

This is so easy. 
KeithP is right, stop looking for stuff that doesn't need any digging.  Your NTH is not compliant because they are ALWAYS non compliant...this is nothing new and always wins at POPLA. 

No need to reinvent the wheel!  This is why Edna Basher's template appeal says what it says.

Stop thinking you have to contact the hire company (no need) or that the DVLA can supply your correct name (they can't).  Do what I told you to do, using Edna Basher's template but use the wrong name, matching the NTH.

sailor1900

Hello All,

Just to let everyone know, today I received an email from Horizon Parking, informing me that:

"I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled in full and no further action will be required regarding this matter."

Thank you to you all for your information and help!

Have a great evening

Scott

Coupon-mad

Yay, well done! 

Easy when you know how, v the likes of Horizon!

D_P_Dance

Now consider a claim against them.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim