Told to take a 20% pay cut but still expected to complete full hours.

HnuterBrice

Is it legal for a company you’re employed by to get you to take a temporary 20% pay cut whilst still telling you, you need to complete your normal hours of work and whilst other employees are placed on furlough earning the same 80% but doing no work (these people aren’t vulnerable)‬. Similarly we have been told that if we don’t sign to agree to this request we will be dealt with accordingly, basically giving us no choice anyway.

Jeremy535897

A contract of employment can be varied in the manner in which the contract itself allows for. For example, you aren't usually required to agree to a pay rise. You are usually required to agree to a pay cut. The problem you face is that you are being told that if you don't agree, you could be made redundant.

I always point out in these circumstances that you are not going to persuade an employer to change its approach just for you. It is always better for the employer to lay off dissenters than try cut some people's pay but not others. That does not work. You can't say they are discriminating on pay, because everyone faces the same pay cut. They also have to apply discrimination and equality laws on choosing who they furlough, and a significant pay cut (more than 20%) has been held to amount to constructive dismissal, but you would have to raise a grievance and go through the employer's process for dealing with grievances. From a practical point of view, you might point out the unfairness, and ask whether they can rotate the staff being furloughed so everyone gets a furlough period.

HnuterBrice

The question was asked about rotating those on furlough but they said it was too complicated. They have said that everybody needs to do their bit but I’m already working from home, using my own resources and working very unsociable hours (for various reasons, which I won’t disclose) to make up the hours, which I am more than happy to do but taking a 20% pay cut on top of this just seems extremely unreasonable, unjust and dismissive of what I am already doing to “do my bit”.
Do you not think that it seems very coincidental that the company is asking us to take a 20% pay cut reducing our pay to match the 80% furlough amount? 🤔

sharpe106

I think a lot of companies are going to be cutting the cloth when the government stop paying. Unemployment will be horrendous afterwards, just look at America. All the government has really done is delayed it and spent billions doing it. At least if redundancies are looked at after this then you will probably most likely be safe, after all they will be furloughing the worse staff.

Jeremy535897

HnuterBrice said:

The question was asked about rotating those on furlough but they said it was too complicated. They have said that everybody needs to do their bit but I’m already working from home, using my own resources and working very unsociable hours (for various reasons, which I won’t disclose) to make up the hours, which I am more than happy to do but taking a 20% pay cut on top of this just seems extremely unreasonable, unjust and dismissive of what I am already doing to “do my bit”.
Do you not think that it seems very coincidental that the company is asking us to take a 20% pay cut reducing our pay to match the 80% furlough amount? 🤔

No, I think it was inevitable. They take a standard approach: reduce everybody's pay by 20% and that sorts out things for those they choose to furlough now, and those they might furlough later. It is not too complicated to rotate employees furloughed though, unless they've already furloughed people for longer than three weeks. I agree with you that they are being unreasonable, but in the end you have to decide whether to fight them, with all the risks involved, resign, or accept it as the best of a bad job.

nyermen

reduce everybody's pay by 20% and that sorts out things for those they choose to furlough now, and those they might furlough later.

Wouldnt the government then only pay 80% of 80%...?  So infact you'd be in a worse position if you were furloughed later?
Sorry, I'm not clear on the rules around how the "80%" eligibility is calculated.

Jeremy535897

nyermen said:

reduce everybody's pay by 20% and that sorts out things for those they choose to furlough now, and those they might furlough later.

Wouldnt the government then only pay 80% of 80%...?  So infact you'd be in a worse position if you were furloughed later?
Sorry, I'm not clear on the rules around how the "80%" eligibility is calculated.

If you really want to know...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

yksi

HnuterBrice said:

The question was asked about rotating those on furlough but they said it was too complicated. They have said that everybody needs to do their bit but I’m already working from home, using my own resources and working very unsociable hours (for various reasons, which I won’t disclose) to make up the hours, which I am more than happy to do but taking a 20% pay cut on top of this just seems extremely unreasonable, unjust and dismissive of what I am already doing to “do my bit”.
Do you not think that it seems very coincidental that the company is asking us to take a 20% pay cut reducing our pay to match the 80% furlough amount? 🤔

I ABSOLUTELY DO! I hold the opinion that anyone given exactly a 20% pay cut should suspect their management of pulling a swifty and claiming furlough for their employees so that paying you is "free". In my opinion, you should first ask why it's 20% and did they apply to the furlough scheme for you (they should not have done this without your written consent, but just ask and see what they say). I personally would then weigh up whether I was ok with being treated like this and asked to take a pay cut when they did not ask the furloughed staff to take a pay cut. For me, the response would be that no thank you I would not like a pay cut since I am still working 100% of my job (even though it might make my long term employment less stable). Keep in mind that when the lockdown lifts, other employers will be scrambling to fill roles as business picks up.

You still have employment rights and cutting your pay by 20% is not one of their rights.

TheBanker

In the current circumstances, I would probably agree to a 20% pay cut. I would ask my boss which day of the week I should take off to compensate for my reduced salary.