Evicting Lodgers

Slithery

brett19852010 said:

If they are lodgers and not paying rebt then I question their right to 4 weeks notice at all.

Why? That's what their contract states.

[Deleted User]

Slithery said:

brett19852010 said:

If they are lodgers and not paying rebt then I question their right to 4 weeks notice at all.

Why? That's what their contract states.

I don't mind to be corrected. I thought it was reasonable notice.

Slithery

It's only reasonable notice if the contract doesn't state otherwise.

[Deleted User]

brett19852010 said:

Slithery said:

brett19852010 said:

If they are lodgers and not paying rebt then I question their right to 4 weeks notice at all.

Why? That's what their contract states.

I don't mind to be corrected. I thought it was reasonable notice.

Statutory notice for excluded occupiers is "reasonable notice" but the OP has created a contract given the excluded occupiers (potentially now tenants) 4 weeks notice so contractually it's 4 weeks.

[Deleted User]

akorn77 said:

greatcrested said:

If they are lodgers, then they are bound by the contract you and they agreed ie 4 weeks. And so are you.

If it is your main residence, you can go in and out as you wish.

And evict them/change the locks after the notice period (served I assume in writing to avoid argument.

However you have clearly muddied the legal waters, and may well have created a tenancy.

staying elsewhere last few months (been going back to my house to stay there every couple weeks) due to work & as i was buying a 2nd property. I had obtained consent to let on the house

Sounds like you a) live elsewhere and b) don't plan to live there in the future.

was intending on converting them to AST once I had completed on the new flat.

An AST is created by the circumstances, not by an arbitrary date when you decide to 'convert them'. It is your actions, not your decisions, that a court would consider in determing whether they are tenants, protected by the Housing Act,or lodgers, reliant soley on the contract terms.

Be careful. Should they be the ones posting here for advice, they may well be told to change the locks themselves, deny you access, and require you to serve them a S21 or S8 Notice should you want to evict.

And forcing entry could be contrary to the Protection from Eviction Act (Ss 1&2 harassment) and other (criminal) statutes...

I don't think living elsewhere temporarily (in my case a few months over a long time period) would necessarily create a guaranteed "tenancy" under UK law. You're right that I have no intention to go back, but this was due to the valid reason of a flat purchase. Due to covid pandemic, there is a valid reason as to why I may want to return to the property full-time. If I'm not mistaken there is no definition of "main residence" in UK law, but rather precedent, so there are alot of factors which would classify it as main residence. Generally speaking, I agree in that it does make things muddy. These unprecedented times will certainly bring a new rule book with it in the coming years. 

zagubov said:

As mentioned above, please make sure you're not doing anything to change the tenure of your lodgers or even make them confused about their status in your main home. Are you still using that house as your contact address, making sure the lodgers haven't fitted locks, etc?
Most importantly, I presume when you're out of the house you're socially distancing (as are they) so you don't bring back contagion when you return?

Both parties are crystal clear that they're lodgers. All my post is there, and there are no locks etc. in the home. I'm not taking any action to change their status or contract. 

There is no "UK" law.  I'm guessing this property is in England and so you are bound by English housing law.  You moved out, you got consent to let, you didn't intend to return to the property, you questioned in your OP if you were allowed to enter the property, you're in murky waters now and I have no idea which way this would go in court if the "lodgers" turned round and claimed to be tenants now.  This is one of those situations where the carrot rather than the stick will probably be best.

greatcrested

The bottom line in the lodger/tenant debate is, as I started by saying, that it is legally murky! There are arguments on both sides. You have presented cogent reasons, with precedents, why they remain lodgers. They themselvescould, should they wish, present cogent reasons why you are no longer a resident landlord for he purposesof the Act.

As Lover_ofLycra says, it's uncertain how a court would decide should it ever go that far.

Your best course is to firmly estabish yourself as a resident landlord (hard during this lockdown!), sit out the 4 weeks, and then evict.

Though then there is the 4 weeks notice debate. That is contractually binding, though the rent arrears may justify earlier eviction.

Were it not for the lockdown, I'd recomend returning to the property immediately, and giving them a 2 day deadline to pay the rent up-to-date or leave. If they failed to pay, I'd evict at the first safe opportunity (ie while they were out).

Lockdown is affecting everything though.

magpie1962

This all sounds so suspect, but forget all that for now. But one thing is niggling me, how do you know "for a fact they have £40,000 in the bank"
I know very few people if any that make it known what they have in savings, good or bad, and you had it from a 3rd party as well? Nah, not buying it, or is it just something you suspect might be going on. I have heard plenty of landlords legal and illegal coming down hard on tenants they are guessing might be trying to pull a fast one in these difficult times.

[Deleted User]

greatcrested said:

Though then there is the 4 weeks notice debate. That is contractually binding, though the rent arrears may justify earlier eviction.

...I'd recomend returning to the property immediately, and giving them a 2 day deadline to pay the rent up-to-date or leave. 

As per the posts above I'm not an authority on this point but did 'question' what others regard as the requirement for the full contracted notice. It did strike me as less than desirable to be a landlord in your own home living with someone on a lodger basis and having to sit out 4 weeks notice when the other party has not kept to what the landlord might consider the main reason to have a lodger - the rent. Take another example: if you are being racially abused by your lodger (or worse), you must sit out 4 weeks?...If it must be 4 weeks that just indicates the need to be careful to get the contract right to protect yourself with a relevant clause.

I do however think that some reasonable notice and good communication would smooth this over (plus the landlord actually living there). Sending someone packing in 2 days vastly increases the chance that the lodger presents with an immediate housing problem and supporting professionals inform the lodger (/tenant) of all of the legal issues in this thread.

zagubov

This isn't much help for now, but for future reference, lots of posters here would give you the same advice, that your contract needs to include, in addition to the usual ones about deposit, shared facilities, locks, noise, smoking, pets,  guests and other visitors, cleaning, etc. very clear rules about notice and deadlines for rent, plus of course no mention of words like tenant/tenancy).
Plus no exceptions for "mates" whatsoever.

FreeBear

zagubov said: your contract needs to include, in addition to the usual ones about deposit, shared facilities, locks, noise, smoking, pets,  guests and other visitors, cleaning, etc. very clear rules about notice and deadlines for rent

Indeed. The contract I use requires four weeks notice, but also includes a couple of clauses to allow for earlier termination...

Rent - If rent is in arrears after 14 days, the lodgers are in breach and required to vacate immediately.

Unauthorised use of LL property, theft, drunk & disorderly, abuse of drugs, or any other matter that may entail the involvement of the police, the LL reserves the right to terminate the agreement without notice. i.e. immediate eviction.