Fired for asking to volunteer, illegal??

Undervalued

Masomnia said:

Undervalued said:

Masomnia said:

Coronavirus Act 2020.

But that relates to taking leave from your employment, which wasn't what the OP was seeking to do.

OK, a year or so down the line, lawyers could possibly argue about it but, as I said above, even if that was a protection how is the OP going to prove that was the reason for their dismissal? The only reason the OP has been given (she doesn't say if it was in writing) was that they could no longer afford to pay her.

Well above the ACAS call centre's pay grade advising on that one!

Ha yes it certainly is.

Agreed it states about taking leave, although it also covers where employers believe they might take leave and so on, so it is quite broad. I think the intention of the legislation is clear that it protects people who want to go and volunteer. 

As you're fond of saying yourself the OP does not have to 'prove' that the main reason for dismissal was wanting to go and volunteer, but they do need to persuade a judge of that on the balance of probabilities. So you have an employee who has good reviews all the time they are there, states that they want to go and volunteer, and then is dismissed 'for no reason'...

Anyway I'm certainly not saying they'll win, but I don't think it's without foundation and certainly not as straightforward as the usual not got 2 years so no chance.

I take your point but I think to have an realistic chance the OP would need to get the employer to say, on record, that was the reason.

Re-reading the OP, she tells us that she has only been told that "they could no longer afford to pay her" (very easy to claim in the current circumstances) and that they won't enter into any further discussion (which would have been their legal advice if they have taken any).

Sadly I am sure the CEO will have no recollection of being asked about volunteering for the NHS but will clearly remember explaining about the current strain on the company finances, which this new employee misunderstood and took very badly. That will be despite the CEO's best efforts to explain this as gently as possible and taking the trouble to praise the OP's work!

All that said, the company may not enjoy the adverse publicity this could generate.......

JReacher1

Undervalued said:

Masomnia said:

Undervalued said:

Masomnia said:

Coronavirus Act 2020.

But that relates to taking leave from your employment, which wasn't what the OP was seeking to do.

OK, a year or so down the line, lawyers could possibly argue about it but, as I said above, even if that was a protection how is the OP going to prove that was the reason for their dismissal? The only reason the OP has been given (she doesn't say if it was in writing) was that they could no longer afford to pay her.

Well above the ACAS call centre's pay grade advising on that one!

Ha yes it certainly is.

Agreed it states about taking leave, although it also covers where employers believe they might take leave and so on, so it is quite broad. I think the intention of the legislation is clear that it protects people who want to go and volunteer. 

As you're fond of saying yourself the OP does not have to 'prove' that the main reason for dismissal was wanting to go and volunteer, but they do need to persuade a judge of that on the balance of probabilities. So you have an employee who has good reviews all the time they are there, states that they want to go and volunteer, and then is dismissed 'for no reason'...

Anyway I'm certainly not saying they'll win, but I don't think it's without foundation and certainly not as straightforward as the usual not got 2 years so no chance.

I take your point but I think to have an realistic chance the OP would need to get the employer to say, on record, that was the reason.

Re-reading the OP, she tells us that she has only been told that "they could no longer afford to pay her" (very easy to claim in the current circumstances) and that they won't enter into any further discussion (which would have been their legal advice if they have taken any).

Sadly I am sure the CEO will have no recollection of being asked about volunteering for the NHS but will clearly remember explaining about the current strain on the company finances, which this new employee misunderstood and took very badly. That will be despite the CEO's best efforts to explain this as gently as possible and taking the trouble to praise the OP's work!

All that said, the company may not enjoy the adverse publicity this could generate.......

It’s a dangerous game going down the publicity route. Although the company may not come out of it well any future employer may be put off in hiring the OP due to these issues. 

Sometimes it’s better to just move on and if you were there less than three months I would probably just forget about it. 

JReacher1

I suspect they weren’t officially sacked but instead “failed probation”. That probably negates a lot of the points above and removes a lot of the legal options. 

[Deleted User]

Urgh, we only know one side of all of this before all sorts of compo can be claimed, (the payday loaners allowed boosting of getting hundreds more back then ever borrowed whilst someone genuinely trying to pay and hit with late payment charge/s is starting to sum this forum up nicely) I imagine if OP wasn't a newie on here then it wouldn't be straight or clear cut and would have been twisted before reaching page 2, in a time when emails aren't read or perceived well, the OP's mistake in their utter brilliance was not understanding company culture.  One day I am sure they will learn they had a fairly lucky escape but I'll appreciate that's not what they want to hear right now...
A probation period is the period of time at the start of an employment when an employee may be dismissed with little or no notice if they're found to be unsuitable for the role. It's very normal to include probation periods – typically three months in length.1 Aug 2019
https://citrushr.com/blog/day-to-day-hr/what-is-a-probation-period/

JReacher1

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

I suspect they weren’t officially sacked but instead “failed probation”. That probably negates a lot of the points above and removes a lot of the legal options. 

Subject Access Request to demonstrate "positive & brilliant reviews/feedback, got along with everyone well, went the extra mile every day and did a lot more than ask, very proactive etc"

Request for written reasons under s.6 of the legislation I stated (which has some interesting stuff about drawing inferences from non-responses).

What you said really doesn't negate what I said. It is literally the default counter-argument from an employer. And a surprisingly bad one at that.

It does negate what you have said. 

The chance of the OP winning any legal case after being dismissed during their probation period is very low (I would say around zero). There has been no discrimination and frankly your suggestions if followed would be waste of everyone’s time 😀

Dox

Jsacker said:

Emma, my knowledge here is super rusty (I'm no expert, so I could be wrong) and so you will need to speak to the likes of ACAS or CAB (or even a solicitor) if you want to take it further, but:

The Part-Time Workers' (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 may be of help here. Initially, I thought that it may apply only to workers but this link (point 5) suggests that it covers employees too. So onwards...

 This legislation broadly ensures that people working part-time hours aren't treated less favourably than their full-time colleagues. In your case, the employer stating that "they couldn’t afford to pay me" is a bit iffy. Did they sack any of your full-time colleagues as well? It would be a bit dodgy if they've only sacked you here... To quote another solicitor's site:

d) It is no longer acceptable to choose to make part-time workers redundant before full-time workers. This would be unlawful under the Regulations and might also amount to sex discrimination if the majority of the part-time workers were women. The criteria for selecting jobs for redundancy must be objectively justified and not cause less favourable treatment between full-timers and part-timers. 
https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-articles/part-time-workers-regs-2000.html

It's not a redundancy situation for you, to be fair, but the principle is very similar (they may have binned off their PT staff before anyone else here in order to save money). Great username, by the way, Emma

I fairly confident that it also allows you to request a written reason for less favourable treatment compared to full-time employees (ie "why did you sack me, a part-time employee, and not my full-time colleagues if you couldn't pay staff?") without the usual 2 years' employment: 

6. Entitlement to written reasons for any treatment they consider less favourable under the Regulations. The employer must respond to a request by an employee for a written statement within 21 days.
https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-articles/part-time-workers-regs-2000.html

Potentially also sprinkle in a Subject Access Request to ask for all of your personal data from them such as your HR file, performance reviews (etc), internal emails to/from your manager and other relevant people which mention you specifically and any other personal data you can think of (the main aim is to get copies of documents which show that you were a great employee). https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/

I would 1000% recommend that you seek professional advice first of all, and maybe run my post past them. But if I'm on the right track then this could be a fun case to take to ACAS Conciliation at least

As you rightly say, you are no expert. Suggesting that it would be a 'fun case to take to ACAS...' also suggests you are being both frivolous and irresponsible. The most likely explanation is that OP was the most recent hire, so all your droning on about part timers is simply irrelevant.

Brynsam

EmmaM92 said:

Hello
I apologise if I am posting this in the wrong place but I am looking for some advice or just opinions. 
I was recently fired during my probation period for no reason (positive & brilliant reviews/feedback, got along with everyone well, went the extra mile every day and did a lot more than ask, very proactive etc). 
I worked part time (3 days a week) and when the government asked for NHS volunteers, out of common courtesy I asked my CEO (small company of 40) if it would be ok for me to volunteer on my non working days. Her response was unbelievable. Not only was she rude, unprofessional and out of order, but she refused me volunteering and told me I should be grateful for being in a paid job and should focus my efforts on that rather than volunteering (not that it’s anything to do with her what I do on my days off). 
A few days later I was fired without notice, real reason and all they said was they couldn’t afford to pay me (an absolute lie). A few emails were exchanged but they asked me to stop contacting them and therefore I’ll never find out exactly why. 
I did some research and saw someone had said being told you can’t volunteer is illegal - and without a good reason to be fired during probation is also quite dodgy although not illegal. Does anyone have any advice here? I asked for Furlough then redundancy but they refused that too. 
Thank you
Emma

How do you know it was 'an absolute lie' - were you the company's CFO?

JReacher1

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

I suspect they weren’t officially sacked but instead “failed probation”. That probably negates a lot of the points above and removes a lot of the legal options. 

Subject Access Request to demonstrate "positive & brilliant reviews/feedback, got along with everyone well, went the extra mile every day and did a lot more than ask, very proactive etc"

Request for written reasons under s.6 of the legislation I stated (which has some interesting stuff about drawing inferences from non-responses).

What you said really doesn't negate what I said. It is literally the default counter-argument from an employer. And a surprisingly bad one at that.

It does negate what you have said. 

The chance of the OP winning any legal case after being dismissed during their probation period is very low (I would say around zero). There has been no discrimination and frankly your suggestions if followed would be waste of everyone’s time 😀

What part of my post is wrong and therefore renders it a waste of time? Genuinely curious, as I'm only trying to help the poster here.

The OP has failed probation.  Although unfortunate that is the situation

You have suggested that they use "The Part-Time Workers' (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000" to launch a legal challenge to this decision.  This would be a waste of time as it doesn't apply in this situation

You have also suggest that the OP contacts ACAS/CAB and a solicitor to help them pursue this legal challenge and also want them to raise SAR requests which will provide very little information if the OP has been working there for less than three months.  At most you will get a couple of feedback reviews which according to the OP will be positive.  I am no sure this helps much.

Lastly even if you were right and the OP won this legal claim they were working there for less than 6 months.  Any compensation they would receive would be minimal and I would be amazed if it was more than a weeks wages.

Therefore as I stated your suggestions although well meaning would be a waste of the OP's time.  She would be far better to just move on and not waste much more of her time on this

Masomnia

JReacher1 said:

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

I suspect they weren’t officially sacked but instead “failed probation”. That probably negates a lot of the points above and removes a lot of the legal options. 

Subject Access Request to demonstrate "positive & brilliant reviews/feedback, got along with everyone well, went the extra mile every day and did a lot more than ask, very proactive etc"

Request for written reasons under s.6 of the legislation I stated (which has some interesting stuff about drawing inferences from non-responses).

What you said really doesn't negate what I said. It is literally the default counter-argument from an employer. And a surprisingly bad one at that.

It does negate what you have said. 

The chance of the OP winning any legal case after being dismissed during their probation period is very low (I would say around zero). There has been no discrimination and frankly your suggestions if followed would be waste of everyone’s time 😀

What part of my post is wrong and therefore renders it a waste of time? Genuinely curious, as I'm only trying to help the poster here.

The OP has failed probation.  Although unfortunate that is the situation

You have suggested that they use "The Part-Time Workers' (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000" to launch a legal challenge to this decision.  This would be a waste of time as it doesn't apply in this situation

You have also suggest that the OP contacts ACAS/CAB and a solicitor to help them pursue this legal challenge and also want them to raise SAR requests which will provide very little information if the OP has been working there for less than three months.  At most you will get a couple of feedback reviews which according to the OP will be positive.  I am no sure this helps much.

Lastly even if you were right and the OP won this legal claim they were working there for less than 6 months.  Any compensation they would receive would be minimal and I would be amazed if it was more than a weeks wages.

Therefore as I stated your suggestions although well meaning would be a waste of the OP's time.  She would be far better to just move on and not waste much more of her time on this

The compensatory award could be quite substantial if there was a successful claim for unfair dismissal, or similarly a settlement. In the current climate you could be out of work for a long time.

JReacher1

Masomnia said:

JReacher1 said:

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

Jsacker said:

JReacher1 said:

I suspect they weren’t officially sacked but instead “failed probation”. That probably negates a lot of the points above and removes a lot of the legal options. 

Subject Access Request to demonstrate "positive & brilliant reviews/feedback, got along with everyone well, went the extra mile every day and did a lot more than ask, very proactive etc"

Request for written reasons under s.6 of the legislation I stated (which has some interesting stuff about drawing inferences from non-responses).

What you said really doesn't negate what I said. It is literally the default counter-argument from an employer. And a surprisingly bad one at that.

It does negate what you have said. 

The chance of the OP winning any legal case after being dismissed during their probation period is very low (I would say around zero). There has been no discrimination and frankly your suggestions if followed would be waste of everyone’s time 😀

What part of my post is wrong and therefore renders it a waste of time? Genuinely curious, as I'm only trying to help the poster here.

The OP has failed probation.  Although unfortunate that is the situation

You have suggested that they use "The Part-Time Workers' (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000" to launch a legal challenge to this decision.  This would be a waste of time as it doesn't apply in this situation

You have also suggest that the OP contacts ACAS/CAB and a solicitor to help them pursue this legal challenge and also want them to raise SAR requests which will provide very little information if the OP has been working there for less than three months.  At most you will get a couple of feedback reviews which according to the OP will be positive.  I am no sure this helps much.

Lastly even if you were right and the OP won this legal claim they were working there for less than 6 months.  Any compensation they would receive would be minimal and I would be amazed if it was more than a weeks wages.

Therefore as I stated your suggestions although well meaning would be a waste of the OP's time.  She would be far better to just move on and not waste much more of her time on this

The compensatory award could be quite substantial if there was a successful claim for unfair dismissal, or similarly a settlement. In the current climate you could be out of work for a long time.

Its not really my problem and I am not a lawyer but if you believe that the OP should pursue a case of unfair dismissal against the company because they failed their probation then that is fair enough.

I personally think it will be a waste of time but if you are saying she has a strong case which will net her a substantial award then she should go for it.