Debit Card fraud claim declined by Santander

Iamsergio

This is probably a trivial matter compared to all thats happening at the moment. But Im so stressed with it, I don't know what to do.
Someone had been using my Debit Card without my permission and after reporting it, my fraud claim has been declined.  I used an ATM on the 24th and left the card in the machine. Simply the fraudster distracted me and somehow I walk away either without ending the transaction which I believed I had and taken the card or they took the card form the machine whilst I turned to talk and clocked my PIN number - I really don't know what happened. They immediately withdrew £250 then used it in a few shops around the area up until the 27th. I noticed on the 6th April and stopped the card and reported to the police. My claim was declined and was told ' I need to prove it wasn't me who made the transactions and its negligence on my part "I should know where my card is at all times".I was told to go to the police and seek evidence. The ATM hasn't got a camera apparently.  please please advise. Im so ill with this I'm getting depressed with it. 

eskbanker

The onus is actually on the card company to prove that it was you rather than you having to prove that it wasn't, but having said that, not noticing that you didn't have your debit card in your possession for two weeks, plus disclosing your PIN, will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

Chino

eskbanker said:

not noticing that you didn't have your debit card in your possession for two weeks, <...> will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

If the OP were to only use their debit card for cash withdrawals, bearing in mind opportunities to spend cash has declined sharply in recent weeks, it's not surprising at all that the OP didn't notice the loss of their debit card for two weeks.

eskbanker said:

plus disclosing your PIN, will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

The OP did not "disclose" their PIN in the manner you suggest, merely used it at an ATM. It's not the OP's fault that UK banks do not fit their ATMs with keypad shields.

eskbanker

Chino said:

eskbanker said:

not noticing that you didn't have your debit card in your possession for two weeks, <...> will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

If the OP were to only use their debit card for cash withdrawals, bearing in mind opportunities to spend cash has declined sharply in recent weeks, it's not surprising at all that the OP didn't notice the loss of their debit card for two weeks.

While I'd agree that opportunities to spend cash are less numerous now, the fact remains that if OP was only using their debit card for cash withdrawals, then going to an ATM and failing to obtain the requested cash (only dispensed after card removal) should be memorable in itself, regardless of the rest of the fortnight.

Chino said:

eskbanker said:

plus disclosing your PIN, will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

The OP did not "disclose" their PIN in the manner you suggest, merely used it at an ATM. It's not the OP's fault that UK banks do not fit their ATMs with keypad shields.

I didn't suggest any manner as such, just replaying OP's admission that their PIN was used, and was therefore inadequately protected. Sure, ATM owners could do more in some cases but that doesn't make them responsible if users fail to shield with hands (or walk away, with card), and if we're going to make allowances for current conditions then obviously shoulder-surfing should be minimal in the era of social distancing....

Iamsergio

eskbanker said:

The onus is actually on the card company to prove that it was you rather than you having to prove that it wasn't, but having said that, not noticing that you didn't have your debit card in your possession for two weeks, plus disclosing your PIN, will unsurprisingly be seen as bizarrely unlikely and/or extremely negligent....

its a second account of mine. My wife and I have a joint account which we use all the time. This is an account I only use for large purchase or banking a chq (they can clearly see that) as in this case. because of the lock down, I had no reason to use the card hence not knowing it was missing until I saw my statement and notice some dodgy transactions. I have an ISA card which is identical to the current account card which I saw in my wallet and assumed it was the card (I know silly). Someone used my card without my knowledge.This is a genuine fraud and possibly a mistake on my part. Ive bank with Santander since 1979, a bit of loyalty wouldn't go amiss.

born_again

>>somehow I walk away either without ending the transaction which I believed I had<<
If you said that to them then you gave them the ammunition to not refund.
How much were you looking to withdraw?
How far through the ATM process did you get?
How much was the total fraud? Were other transaction contactless or PIN?
How soon after did you contact Santander?

This is a very common scam and I would be refunding you ( would not have heard the above statement, but that's just me)
I think you are going to have to complain and get them to review the outcome. This will be done by the complaints team and not the team that just gave you the "NO" decision. The complaints team look at things in a different way. So there is a good chance of a refund. If they still say NO then you have to let it go to FOS, will take several months but I would say on the balance you should win.

Iamsergio

born_again said:

>>somehow I walk away either without ending the transaction which I believed I had<<
If you said that to them then you gave them the ammunition to not refund.
How much were you looking to withdraw?
How far through the ATM process did you get?
How much was the total fraud? Were other transaction contactless or PIN?
How soon after did you contact Santander?

This is a very common scam and I would be refunding you ( would not have heard the above statement, but that's just me)
I think you are going to have to complain and get them to review the outcome. This will be done by the complaints team and not the team that just gave you the "NO" decision. The complaints team look at things in a different way. So there is a good chance of a refund. If they still say NO then you have to let it go to FOS, will take several months but I would say on the balance you should win.

Thank you that.  
I was banking a chq because they were closed.
Ive just spoken with the complaints people and they will get back to me. Ill let you know how I get on thanks for your advice

Iamsergio

born_again said:

>>somehow I walk away either without ending the transaction which I believed I had<<
If you said that to them then you gave them the ammunition to not refund.
How much were you looking to withdraw?
How far through the ATM process did you get?
How much was the total fraud? Were other transaction contactless or PIN?
How soon after did you contact Santander?

This is a very common scam and I would be refunding you ( would not have heard the above statement, but that's just me)
I think you are going to have to complain and get them to review the outcome. This will be done by the complaints team and not the team that just gave you the "NO" decision. The complaints team look at things in a different way. So there is a good chance of a refund. If they still say NO then you have to let it go to FOS, will take several months but I would say on the balance you should win.

You were spot on-thank you again.
They have just refunded all the money and compensated which is common sense customer service. The fella told me that they had mismanaged my claim and felt that they had unnecessarily caused me stressed-which they had. Although Ive been refunded, I'm still angry with the knowledge that someone could that to someone else. 

born_again

Pleased for you. Hope you can relax (if possible given all our situation) and enjoy Easter to the best at home.
I understand your anger, as it should have been dealt with straight away.

As I said that simple one line can make someone think you walked away in error with the card and pin live in the ATM.

It is never a personal decision and something we have to do day in day out. So there are times we do get it wrong. As we are just human.

penners324

Makes instant notifications that Monzo and Starling (and gradually others) offer a very good idea.

penners324

Bit surprised the OP hadn't checked their bank balance online or in app for 2 weeks.