Holiday while on furlough

chelseablue

I am currently on furlough since the start of this week. 

I did have next week booked off as holiday (4 days as Monday is a bank holiday) 
I wanted to cancel the time I booked off  and get the 4 days back but my employer says no they have to stay booked as holiday so I’ve lost the 4 days.
Is this correct? 

sharpe106

If they are furloughing you then it is 3 weeks min so they can't claim for this week give you holiday next week and then furlough you the week after.

7Phil

You certainly should not "lose" them as you remain legally entitled to your 5.6 weeks' paid holiday. Much like bank holidays, if you are on annual leave then you should expect to be paid full pay for these days on holiday.

At the moment it looks like you are allowed to be on a Bank Holiday and furlough at the same time without breaking the 3 week minimum rule (if that applies to your situation anyway). Annual leave is treated the same as a Bank Holiday so in principle it sounds like that can be treated the same way, contrary to the advice of the poster above.

There is some more clear guidance on the issue of holidays here:
https://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/using-holiday

Previously booked holidays

An employee may no longer want to take time off they'd previously booked, for example because their hotel cancelled the booking. Their employer can insist they still take the time off, but it’s best practice to get agreement from the employee.

If the employee wants to change when they take this time off, they'll need to get agreement from their employer.

There is an argument going around that (paraphrased) suggests that if an employee is furloughed and the employer requires them to take holidays then that effectively deprives the employee of free right to chose over the matter. That would constitute an abuse of employee's rights. We need to wait a little longer for things to become clearer in the official guidance about this exact scenario. At the moment all advice is based on interpretation of existing laws and conditions, but the ACAS guidance above is about the closest we have so far to an official ruling.

If the above is true then that would mean you will be on holidays next week assuming your employer does not agree to cancel them, but you will be on 100% pay.
If your employer pays you at 80% pay because they interpret things that way then they would need to make up the shortfall in a future pay if you are owed a difference.

Confusedezza

I don’t understand why people are worried about losing a few days holiday when they could be off work for months, with a reasonable level of pay.
Nothing personal, seems to be a lot of people with this mindset.

pjcox2005

There is an argument going around that (paraphrased) suggests that if an employee is furloughed and the employer requires them to take holidays then that effectively deprives the employee of free right to chose over the matter. That would constitute an abuse of employee's rights. We need to wait a little longer for things to become clearer in the official guidance about this exact scenario. At the moment all advice is based on interpretation of existing laws and conditions, but the ACAS guidance above is about the closest we have so far to an official ruling.

If the above is true then that would mean you will be on holidays next week assuming your employer does not agree to cancel them, but you will be on 100% pay.
If your employer pays you at 80% pay because they interpret things that way then they would need to make up the shortfall in a future pay if you are owed a difference.

I'm not sure I get this point, employers already have the right to dictate exactly when holiday is taken it's just many don't. 
I believe Martin is looking into the holiday/furlough point, and it probably depends on whether you're being paid 80% or 100% pay too. In particular it seems perfectly reasonable if you have to take holiday accruing in the period during furlough as it allows you to be present and helping once the lockdown is lifted.

chelseablue

Thanks all, my employer is topping up to 100% so Im still on full pay luckily. 
I haven't had a lot of holiday this year so after 'loosing' the 4 days I've still got 23 to take when we go back

Undervalued

sharpe106 said:

If they are furloughing you then it is 3 weeks min so they can't claim for this week give you holiday next week and then furlough you the week after.

True but they could instruct the employee to take holiday as soon as the current 3 week furlough ends, then furlough again immediately after the holiday if the situation continues.

warby68

Not exactly the question asked, but I sort of think you should lose your holiday entitlement pro rata with the time you are furloughed. It seems a fair way of recognising the situation that your employment as actually on hold. Imagine furlough lasts 6m, then employer tries to get back to normal  but all staff have 12m holiday still to take but only 6m left of the year (I know there is an option to carry unused hols forward). It just seems to go against the business survival motive.
Speaking as an employee by the way. Wonder if I am alone in thinking like this.

calcotti

warby68 said:

Not exactly the question asked, but I sort of think you should lose your holiday entitlement pro rata with the time you are furloughed. It seems a fair way of recognising the situation that your employment as actually on hold. Imagine furlough lasts 6m, then employer tries to get back to normal  but all staff have 12m holiday still to take but only 6m left of the year (I know there is an option to carry unused hols forward). It just seems to go against the business survival motive.
Speaking as an employee by the way. Wonder if I am alone in thinking like this.

There is an argument that 'holiday' taken while on furlough cannot achieve the legal purpose of holiday due to the lockdown constraints. See this discussion https://uklabourlawblog.com/2020/04/06/furloughing-and-fundamental-rights-the-case-of-paid-annual-leave-by-alan-bogg-and-michael-ford/