Concerns about doing full duties when returning to work (social distancing).

Forum_Name

suki1964 said:

Listen to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000h2pc. about 1 hour 34 mins

I listened from 1:34 to 1:43. I take from the clip this:
* Outsiders simply do not have a clue. They live in a perfect world where they believe everyone does the right thing and when you tell them that isn't the case in the real world they're gobsmacked and some times even think you must surely be making it up. Listen to the guy (Jeremy Vine?) when the caller said people congregate in the toilet area to discuss the current events of the day as there's no cameras in the toilet area. Jeremy Vine appears to be shocked. I don't work in a metal sheeting place but i work with similar types of people (yes it may be stereotyping & i'm not saying they're all the same because i for example am not, but there'll be many many who meet the stereotype in these types of jobs, it's just fact, like it or not) and this kind of news does not shock me one bit. It's what happens. I'd be shocked if the caller said that didn't happen.

The woman is talking about responsible employers doing their upmost. Yes there will be many, but we don't even need to discuss those employers because they're doing what they need to and then some so it's not even a problem. Let's not waste time talking about those doing it right. We need to focus on what isn't right and help those people. I've been officially told that <procedure> is happening which sounds good but i had my concerns as it goes against how i know the employer works and i mean the top dog, the final decision maker. People under this person want to do the right thing but if the top dog says jump then they're jumping, regardless. I've been in touch with people on the front line and i've been told that <procedure> is not happening. So basically it's a paper procedure so that anyone on the outside can see that we're doing the 'right thing' but in reality that isn't happening. Corners are being cut.
If i speak out then i am a difficult employee who doesn't want to work. Workshy, lazy, troublesome. That's how it could/would get twisted. In reality i am a concerned employee, concerned for my own health and concerned for those i live with who are in at risk categories for various conditions, some with multiple conditions. Is the job worth dying for or killing your family members for? Of course not. I know that will sound extreme and unlikely to many if they choose to be flippant but i know of one chap who would agree that i am not being extreme. I am also concerned that as i am more likely to stand my ground over what i see as right (social distancing, spending time cleaning which delays the public service) then i can/will be seen as troublesome. A target, a scapegoat. 

But at the same time we all need a job. My personal feelings is that i am in a no win situation. Work and be at risk, risk of getting it, risk of major fallout with the employer ........ or don't work, get sacked, leave, and have no job. 

Andy_L said:

Do you have a link, the closest I've found to that form of words is a statement by the trade body rather than Gov guidance/legislation. It seems unlikely that one specific industry must observe it while all the rest just have to do it where possible

Of course. It would be this link. 
I know you say that it isn't gov guidance/legislation. I know it doesn't come from the .gov website directly but i can only quote what it says at the start:

remain open during the COVID-19 lockdown, as long as they follow Public Health England (PHE) guidelines, the government has confirmed.

Andy_L

Forum_Name said:

Of course. It would be this link. 
I know you say that it isn't gov guidance/legislation. I know it doesn't come from the .gov website directly but i can only quote what it says at the start:

remain open during the COVID-19 lockdown, as long as they follow Public Health England (PHE) guidelines, the government has confirmed.

1st quote (Journalistic preamble) "follow PHE guidelines"
2nd(CLCT/BEIS briefing) "operations should be carried out while observing PHE guidelines"
3rd Quote (BMF CE) "providing they observe PHE guidance including social distancing, cleaning and hygiene, staff welfare"

Its only the 3rd one that specifically calls out social distancing. However if you then look at the guidance for business on social distancing it says "in accordance with the social distancing guidelines wherever possible." but. if you can't do that work can still go on but with mitigation measures in place.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance

Forum_Name

Thank you for the input. It's good to hear another persons take on it. I am obviously biased so my take no matter how much i try not to be biased is likely to be a biased one.

Reading that link you gave and reading about construction. It seems to be that when they talk of construction they only mean building sites. I would imagine that on building sites it shouldn't be too bad to keep your distance so i don't understand the big hoo-ha over shutting them down. Sure if you have 100 members on a site it may be better to knock that down to 30 and furlough the remainder and have them on a rolling furlough system perhaps but i think you should be able to keep distance on a site. We serve the construction industry quite heavily but perhaps we come under hardwear store more than anything else as we deal with a huge range of products. I honestly don't know. 

Nevertheless, the talk of being essential and vital i think is misleading. I don't know whether all Superdrugs have done this but i saw a local one having the makeup section taped off since it's not essential, but you can buy medication and say shower gel for example. That's fair enough in my eyes. Is it really vital that that building site gets its blocks though to build that building? We could argue the case all day long but where do we stop? Is it really vital that your 80 year old next door old dear gets her paving slabs and decorative stone to spruce up her garden? I would argue not but the government don't seem to agree with me and well they're the ones that make the decisions. 

Having been given a date to return to work it just leaves me wondering what was the point? What was the point in being furloughed? In all the staff being sent home and put in 3 week leave? As nothing has changed since that day. the country is still on the same 'lockdown' (i use the term loosely) now as it was on the 24th, we can still legally remain open now like we could on the 24th. Nothing has changed, apart from perhaps the employer has had confirmation from some legal body that we actually can stay open (or maybe they knew they could all along, i don't know). Nothing has changed so the past 3 weeks have been fairly pointless. 

bap98189

Forum_Name said: Reading that link you gave and reading about construction. It seems to be that when they talk of construction they only mean building sites. I would imagine that on building sites it shouldn't be too bad to keep your distance so i don't understand the big hoo-ha over shutting them down. 

The construction industry hasn't stopped for health reasons, it has stopped work for ecconomic reasons. It has stopped building because the companies are not willing to spend cash building houses they cannot sell. House building has ceased but oher construction is continuing.

Forum_Name said: Having been given a date to return to work it just leaves me wondering what was the point? What was the point in being furloughed? 

The point of the furlough scheme is to protect jobs and enable businesses to not have to sack all their skilled staff. This is so that when this is over they can immediately start up again. if there is work to be done then businesses will bring staff back to work and pay them in the normal manner.

Forum_Name

Thank you for your input.

Some staff are still there. I return on Monday (yup, Monday as in the bank holiday day: we get it elsewhere). One of these members actually called me today to update as to how things were getting on. 
They say that the distancing is "sort of working sort of not". The public they are dealing with don't care about the social distancing and they're still walking around as though it's a case of what's this Coronavirus thing everyone is talking about? Never heard of it.
They also tell me that the employed staff are adhering to working clean as best they can. They have been provided wipes and they wipe machinery down before and after use, however when the top dog i mentioned comes along, the boss does not care for it one bit. He will hop on and off machinery no wiping down at all. No warning against getting too close to the public or alternative measures, i'm told the boss appears to be instructing a work as normal attitude with the only regard being towards public serving and not health. Their words, not mine. People on the front line in my experience tend to tell it as it really is and not how officials would like to see it on paper. 

Suppose i'll find out for myself on Monday.

Savvy_Sue

I suppose it's too much to hope that you're in a trade union? 

Forum_Name

Savvy_Sue said:

I suppose it's too much to hope that you're in a trade union? 

No, I am in a trade union. Have been for some years. I actually contacted them this week to ask a question. Their phone lines were useless so thankfully they responded to my email but their response was very politician like: answering without answering. Just basically wait nearer the time (for the question I asked). I discovered this evening that my employer is doing something that very likely could land them in a bit of bother with HMRC. For what it's worth, it's best I say nothing about it. It would cause all kinds of trouble for me and I would actually gain nothing from it whatsoever, it's too late and even if it wasn't too late, i'd gain so little out of it for the trouble it'd cause me that it's in my interest to just let it go. So why am I even bothering to mention this here you may wonder? Well obviously you only have my word this is the case and I could be just making up some fairytale story, but what would I have to gain from that? Basically just to show that my employer doesn't think twice about doing things the way they want to do them, whether that's the right way or not or whether that's the legal way or can probably get away with it way as hopefully nobody will realise or not.

Savvy_Sue

Well, it's just that if thought I was likely to end up facing disciplinary action for refusing to work or carry out certain tasks, I'd want the union supporting me at that point.