Government guidance on Job Retention Scheme has been updated 4 April

calcotti

Hermann said:

The updated guidance appears to now say all employers can apply though so does that change things?

This is a temporary scheme in place for 3 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus.

I can see that you could read it that way - particularly "the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus." This could be read to include the impact of someone not being able to come to work because they've been advised to stay home.
Despite my earlier post perhaps we don't have an answer after all!
It would be a very simple point for the government to clarify.

gary83

calcotti said:

I think we now have an answer to the vexed question of whether people who are shielding can be furloughed by an employer who has no general need to furlough employers
"If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus.." This seems to prevent an employer furloughing someone just because that employee is shielding.

I agree, Looking at the guidance for employers in the opening lines the basic definition of furlough has remained the same;

If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’. 

It still refers to the employer as “they” and the employee as “you” if you could claim the furlough for childcare issues or medical reasons alone, despite the company still operating or having work for you to do (as hundreds of people still seem to be asking) then that eligibility criteria would need to change. It Still doesn’t cover the scenario if you’re unable to operate.

Jeremy535897

Yes, I tried by clicking on the see all updates link, but it didn't do anything useful. I would look back, but trying to find the thread in over 1200 posts is daunting!

robbiez

Jeremy535897 said:

Yes, I tried by clicking on the see all updates link, but it didn't do anything useful. I would look back, but trying to find the thread in over 1200 posts is daunting!

Do you want a comparison of the previous and updated guidelines?
I saved a copy from last week. I will see if I can work out the changes later.

Hermann

calcotti said:

Jeremy535897 said:

Calcotti, it was in the earlier version. ...
I agree that the wording could be clearer, but if your interpretation was correct, I think the words "or to any income from self employment" would be otiose.

Thanks Jeremy. Slightly frustrating not being able to see exactly what has changed!

Original wording on the employees guidance was ....

Check if your employer can use the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

Find out if you’re eligible, and how much your employer can claim if they put you on temporary leave (“furlough”) because of coronavirus (COVID-19).

Published 26 March 2020

From:

HM Revenue & Customs

Contents

1. Check if you’re eligible
2. How much you’ll get
3. While you’re on furlough
4. If you do not want to go on furlough

If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.

Your employer could pay 80% of your wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, up to a monthly cap of £2,500.

You’ll still be paid by your employer and pay taxes from your income. You cannot undertake work for your employer while on furlough. We expect the scheme to be up and running by the end of April.

Check if you’re eligible

Both you and your employer must agree to put you on furlough - so speak to your employer about whether they can claim. You cannot apply for the scheme yourself. Once agreed your employer must write to you confirming you have been furloughed to be eligible to claim.

Any UK employer with a UK bank account will be able to claim, but you must have been on your employer’s PAYE payroll on 28 February 2020. You can be on any type of contract, including a zero-hour contract or a temporary contract.

This scheme does not apply if you are self-employed or to any income from self-employment.

If you’re on sick leave or self-isolating because of coronavirus (COVID-19), speak to your employer about whether you’re eligible - you should get Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) while you are on sick leave or self-isolating, but can be furloughed after this.

If you are shielding in line with public health guidance, then you should speak to your employer about whether they plan to place staff on furlough.

The grant will start on the day you were placed on furlough and this can be backdated to 1 March.

Hermann

I have saved pdfs of the originals if anyone felt they'd particularly like them, assuming we can transfer pdfs via the message system? Or happy to email if you're ok to message an address.

calcotti

I can see that "This scheme does not apply if you are self-employed or to any income from self-employment."was in there before/ Upon reflection I think I was reading too much into it earlier. 

Jeremy535897

Unfortunately I think this dog is already out of the trap...
Let's think about it logically (I know there's no logic in this world, but it's the best we can do). If being self employed (whether you qualify for SEISS or not) precluded you from being in the job retention scheme:

• why do you also need the words "or to any income from self employment" if you can't qualify when self employed?
• why wouldn't it be mentioned in the guidance to employers in the "if your employee has another job" section?
• someone who left their job on say 10 March 2020 to become self employed would not qualify for the job retention scheme or SEISS (and from this forum plenty did leave their jobs in March)
• someone who had a full time job and had a little business on the side would not qualify for the job retention scheme. Why?
• if you have more employment income than self employment income, you would qualify for neither scheme. Why?

I think the natural reading of the words is as follows:
"You don't qualify for the job retention scheme if you are a self employed person rather than an employed person, and if you are both self employed and employed the job retention scheme does not apply to the self employment income."
I could well be wrong, but I would venture to say that nobody picked up on this (except in the thread below):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76995317#Comment_76995317

calcotti

Jeremy535897 said: I think the natural reading of the words is as follows:

"You don't qualify for the job retention scheme if you are a self employed person rather than an employed person, and if you are both self employed and employed the job retention scheme does not apply to the self employment income."
I could well be wrong, but I would venture to say that nobody picked up on this (except in the thread below):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76995317#Comment_76995317

I agree. Was overthinking it earlier.