COVID advice -renters

nylon1234

Hi all.
Im a mother of a 19 month old boy and work FT (but have been furloughed as of this morning due to pandemic).
My HB, son and I live in a rented flat which is (was) approx £200 below our means (on purpose so we could save!)
Prior to this pandemic, we were on track to buying our first small 2 bed home in Autumn. We currently have around £15k savings. My HB is a key worker. I’m WFH (or was).
We live in a six block of flats, made in 1960s- single pained windows, no installation in walls, no carpet underlay. We can hear our neighbours on all sides!
we get on great with all of our neighbors, bar couple upstairs.  They are considered “odd” by everyone.

Our upstairs neighbour (retired man) has been seriously, seriously harassing us since we moved in 19 months ago. He intimidated me on a almost daily basis when I started maternity leave- following me and my tiny son, banging on the floor with a pole, jumping on the floor when he heard my son crying, slamming the windows shut over and over (and over) again, watching me leave our flat out of the window with my baby (after hitting the floor/ my ceiling with what sounded like a pole). Vandalising our vehicles really badly, spitting on our cars.  We reported him many times and he had 2 x official
harassment orders presented to him by police. He was vile to us, creepy and assaulted me once  (I won’t give specific details on internet in case its too outing).
Basically he’s a nightmare neighbour and really focused on me and my son.
long story short, he has recently hired a solicitor to claim we’re banging poles on his floor/ our ceiling (exactly what he’s been doing for a year?! Why would we do this with a baby in the flat). His solicitor has now written to our landlord twice and said he will claim indemnity on behalf of his clients and will therefore take *US* to court for harassing him!

He wants our landlord to respond within 48 hours (by Monday 6th) and if she doesn’t he will take us to court and try to charge us for his time! (Via this indemnity).

i feel beyond harassed right now. Can this solicitor do this during this COVID pandemic?  
I can hardly believe a grown man would lie to this extent, so viciously in this lockdown- we do not have the money to
throw at solicitors for make- believe cases!  

Also, can the solicitor threaten to take us to court during this crazy time?
ive just been put on furlough!

any advice GREATLY appreciated.
thank you. 

 

oldbikebloke

what is an "HB"?
is "WFH" a disease? Can you claim disability benefit for it?

davidmcn

WFH = working from home

HB = hunky boyfriend, maybe?

Your neighbour can't just arbitrarily "claim indemnity" for his legal costs. I'd be tempted to do nothing (and advise your landlord similarly) and wait to see whether neighbour is crazy enough to actually spend money on starting a court action. I'd bet not. But anybody can threaten to take somebody else to court, for any daft reason.

happy_2008

I thought it was:

HB - Husband

WFH - Work From Home

[Deleted User]

Keep reporting the harassment, probably speak to citizens advice or shelter. 

Solicitor is out of line and unprofessional in this.
Let's be sensible. Your neighbours fictitious, unevidenced claims won't be going near a court.

coachman12

Hi and welcome to the Forum, nylon. You have a problem which is one of the most common domestic causes of strife----and often one of the most difficult to resolve.
First, I have to say that I do not really see any relevance of the pandemic to your problems. You have been having problems for 19 months and I would just restrict your focus to the whole period and the whole saga of the harassment. The virus makes it more persistent because you are now at home all the time, but that is not the main concern as you describe it. In any action, I would ignore the virus factor.
Second, you mention a retired man living in the upstairs flat, then you mention a couple who are considered "odd" by most residents. Is it one or both harassing you? How do you know? Have you spoken to the other member of the "couple"? What has your husband said or done in response and does he share your views? How do you know the culprit is using a "pole" to bang on his floor? Have you got any independent witnesses to the harassment on any occasion, eg while a friend or tradesman was in your flat during one of your upstair's neighbour's bouts of noise?
Having said that all that, and without knowing more detailed info, it seems that you moved in to your flat 19 months ago and your child is 19 months old ; that sounds a bit unusual but not amazing----so you have been facing harassment ever since your child was born at the same time you moved in to your present flat. It is unlikely anyone would take your neighbours' charges against YOU seriously when you have been caring for a baby during all this time and therefore would be highly unlikely to want to cause any sort of noise or aggravation. 
You do not say exactly how you have complained about your neighbours over the past 19 months.
Have you sought help from the police ? If not, you should do so. Have you complained to your local authority who can arrange to visit at a time when you think they are most likely to be hearing your neighbour's nastiness? You should do both of those, you should have done so many months ago.
The police take harassment very seriously. The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 ( section 2) is treated very seriously. 
Given the latest developments and your neighbour's move to a solicitor, you must ask the police AND local authority for help, especially if you have any witnesses. And will a number of other residents tell the police when interviewed that your neighbour is generally considered weird?
And you now need a solicitor even though it is unfair , as you say, that you have to meet costs when you are not at fault. But IMHO you really need a solicitor now. That does not mean instead of police and local authority environment officer----it means as well as. And you need to keep a strict diary of all harassment events. And as many witnesses or other third parties as you can find.
The neighbour's solicitor is probably full of hot air but it now seems necessary for your own solicitor to find out and to further advise you about the police role, legal proceedings and all about the provisions of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Very best wishes for a successful resolution in what is obviously an awful position in which you find yourself through no fault of your own. Wish I could give better advice, but all these cases of neighbours' disputes and harassment are different and often complex; hence need for solicitor. Good luck, nylon. I'm sure you'll get advice which may help even more from the many helpful people on this Forum.

Bossypants

Ignore him until you get a court date (you won't, and on the tiny chance that you do, the burden of proof will be on him and he'll have none). Your landlord should do the same (it's nothing to do with them anyway, they aren't liable for your behaviour just because you rent a flat from them). This 'solicitor' is definitely in the neighbour's pocket and seems to be sending nonsense letters to whomever they can think of, rather than following any kind of normal process for harrassment situations. If you were so inclined you could make a complaint about them, though I'm not sure it's worth the bother, even the most upstanding of solicitors are slippery creatures (I say that with love!).

Comms69

nylon1234 said:

Hi all.
Im a mother of a 19 month old boy and work FT (but have been furloughed as of this morning due to pandemic).
My HB, son and I live in a rented flat which is (was) approx £200 below our means (on purpose so we could save!)
Prior to this pandemic, we were on track to buying our first small 2 bed home in Autumn. We currently have around £15k savings. My HB is a key worker. I’m WFH (or was).
We live in a six block of flats, made in 1960s- single pained windows, no installation in walls, no carpet underlay. We can hear our neighbours on all sides!
we get on great with all of our neighbors, bar couple upstairs.  They are considered “odd” by everyone.

Our upstairs neighbour (retired man) has been seriously, seriously harassing us since we moved in 19 months ago. He intimidated me on a almost daily basis when I started maternity leave- following me and my tiny son, banging on the floor with a pole, jumping on the floor when he heard my son crying, slamming the windows shut over and over (and over) again, watching me leave our flat out of the window with my baby (after hitting the floor/ my ceiling with what sounded like a pole). Vandalising our vehicles really badly, spitting on our cars.  We reported him many times and he had 2 x official
harassment orders presented to him by police. He was vile to us, creepy and assaulted me once  (I won’t give specific details on internet in case its too outing).
Basically he’s a nightmare neighbour and really focused on me and my son.
long story short, he has recently hired a solicitor to claim we’re banging poles on his floor/ our ceiling (exactly what he’s been doing for a year?! Why would we do this with a baby in the flat). His solicitor has now written to our landlord twice and said he will claim indemnity on behalf of his clients and will therefore take *US* to court for harassing him!

He wants our landlord to respond within 48 hours (by Monday 6th) and if she doesn’t he will take us to court and try to charge us for his time! (Via this indemnity).

i feel beyond harassed right now. Can this solicitor do this during this COVID pandemic?  
I can hardly believe a grown man would lie to this extent, so viciously in this lockdown- we do not have the money to
throw at solicitors for make- believe cases!  

Also, can the solicitor threaten to take us to court during this crazy time?
ive just been put on furlough!

any advice GREATLY appreciated.
thank you. 

 

I dont understand the issue. a solicitor has written some nonsense to you. Why are you taking it seriously?

You dont need a solicitor. 

Yes they can threaten to take you to court, but you wont be paying his solicitor fees - let him throw good money after bad.

Reply given in Arkell v Presdram

Comms69

Bossypants said:

Ignore him until you get a court date (you won't, and on the tiny chance that you do, the burden of proof will be on him and he'll have none). Your landlord should do the same (it's nothing to do with them anyway, they aren't liable for your behaviour just because you rent a flat from them). This 'solicitor' is definitely in the neighbour's pocket and seems to be sending nonsense letters to whomever they can think of, rather than following any kind of normal process for harrassment situations. If you were so inclined you could make a complaint about them, though I'm not sure it's worth the bother, even the most upstanding of solicitors are slippery creatures (I say that with love!).

I am almost certain the letter will say "My client claims x, y or z." - the SRA wont take any action here. At the end of the day solicitors do not have to be fair to the other party, only their client and the court.

nylon1234

Hi all,

I am so appreciative for all of your responses. 

Yes sorry about some of the rushed typing yesterday, I was keen not to miss anything. HB stands for husband (although “hunky boyfriend” fully made me laugh). WFH is working from home.

We moved about 2 days before I gave birth (my son was born early), so the harassment started immediately from then on. 

The neighbour has a wife but we’ve literally seen her once- for a good year I thought he lived alone as we never see her- not in the carpark, outside in the gardens, waking upstairs- nothing. 

I am going to put in an online report to the police today so that so have a record of his continued  pestering and goading of us. I really don’t want to waste their time but I don’t want to let this go unreported from us. 

RE the solicitor- I think we will ignore. 

Thank you again for all replies- it has really helped me to get perspective on this.

nylon1234

Hi all,

So we’ve been studying this solicitors letter and it’s titled “letter before action”.  Can we actually ignore such a letter? I’m sorry I am completely new to legal terminology and I don’t know whether the letter title is significant or not?
I have scoured the internet trying to get more info on this but am just coming across constant adverts for solicitors. I really don’t want to hire one atm if I don’t have to...

Thank you.