Furlough 'contract': mixed messages. Not sure to what extent i am furloughed.

mutter

Forum_Name said:

mutter - to me that sounds very much the definition of cake & eating it surely? They're not paying your son to work, the government are, so essentially it's free labour ....right?

Oh and in case it makes a difference, i've worked at my place for a number of years, much more than just 24 months.

Yes that was exactly my point!
Government is paying son's wages, not employer.
I don't expect employer is the only one that's sussed this one out, but I'd love to know what, if any, safeguards are in place to ensure that furlough means furlough and not an opportunity for unscrupulous employers to get free labour.

Hermann

Short answer is yes they can call you back at any point if that is covered by your contract, you just won't be furloughed if they do. Their problem.
Furlough is entirely at the employers discretion so they get to choose.

Perhaps they are uncertain on whether there is work or not so have initially furloughed to cover themselves if they don't or can't return to having work available.

The health and safety issue is a different one but although they have a duty of care in reality it's notoriously difficult to challenge that in the sort of workplace you describe.

Forum_Name

Hermann said:

The health and safety issue is a different one but although they have a duty of care in reality it's notoriously difficult to challenge that in the sort of workplace you describe.

Difficult in the sense that you can't prove that they're failing in providing the care or that it's a job where meeting the requirements is virtually impossible & that is generally accepted?

This employee i mentioned earlier put it to the boss that we can stay open sure, but we can't meet the 2 metre guideline. It's simply not possible. The boss' response was just keep some water and soap with you. 
Typical 'it will do' attitude. That's great for keeping hands clean and surfaces clean, although it will be a nightmare carrying a bucket of water and a bar of soap everywhere you walk, but what about breathing in what others are breathing out? One aspect of the job requires two men to work in close proximity to each other as things are handled, there's no way around this. 

I'll just have to sit tight and see what happens. I imagine there's going to be quite a number of employers around the country that match what @mutter describes. 

Hermann

Sorry I'm not confident in trying to help any further with the health and safety aspect beyond signposting it as an issue.

Hopefully it will work out for you, at least you still have wages coming in either way. It is still possible further restrictions will come into place that prevent your employer providing work.

Forum_Name

Hermann said:

Sorry I'm not confident in trying to help any further with the health and safety aspect beyond signposting it as an issue.

Hopefully it will work out for you, at least you still have wages coming in either way. It is still possible further restrictions will come into place that prevent your employer providing work.

Thank you for the help you have provided.
I have today read a letter from some sort of governing body so i don't imagine there'll be rulings in place to totally shut our place down any time soon whereby they have the choice taken away from them. I think the situation would have to get much worse for that to happen, but you never know.

At the very least i'll just have to keep a tape measure with me at all times and make sure anyone coming near me can see what a 2 metre gap looks like and if that means part of the job can't get done then part of the job can't get done. I'll do the bits that can meet guidelines. 

Thanks again.

Castle

Section 44 of the 1996 Employment Act deals with Health & Safety in the work place:-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/44

Forum_Name

I always get these things wrong such as returning from sick days so just wanted to double check.

So say you're furloughed from Tuesday 24th March as in you worked Monday 23rd as normal but Tuesday 24th was your first day of furlough.
And assuming they don't call us/me back and there's no further furlough (can't see a second period tbh unless further clampdowns are coming but even then they'd have to be pretty severe - can't see it).

When is my return to work date? Would it be Monday 13th April? Or am i wrong and it would be Tuesday 14th April?

Forum_Name

Can anyone clarify my question in my previous post please?

As i understand it you're furloughed for a minimum 3 weeks. A week is 7 days so you're furloughed for 7x3= 21 days, so you're not working for 21 days, you work on the 22nd day?

I contacted my employer in the end to discuss.

We have a return date. This return date will be the 21st day since we've been off, so we will have had 20 days off work.

Simply, our final working day was Monday 23rd March. Tuesday 24th March was the first day we didn't work. 
We're to return on Monday 13th April. They specifically said to me that they will not be bringing us back before the end of the furlough period. 

So when a week is 7 days, why are we returning on the 21st day and not the 22nd? I can't get my head around it so hoping someone could explain. Thank you.

calcotti

I agree that it does look as if your employer is asking you back a day too soon.