Unable to work due to child care, employer won't offer furlough

BBunter

According to Martin Lewis : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/03/coronavirus-self-employed-and-employment-help/
I have not seen this mentioned on any government website but :

It's up to your employer to decide and define who is furloughed. It could be because you've no work to do, but it can also because you have to be home to look after children or you're self-isolating. The key to this is the state is looking to support people, so this isn't about loopholes to catch people out, it’s about a broad sweep to gather people in.

BBunter

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

Undervalued

BBunter said:

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

This is the problem, there is a great deal of misinformation circulating as "experts" try to interpret the regulations. It is similar to different police forces taking different stances on the stay at home rules. Months or years down the line the courts are going to have to resolve all that and a lot of people are going to end up on the wrong side. 

mobilejo

BBunter said:

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

It sounds like you at least are willing to furlough them.

In the OPs case, none of this is relevant if they just don't want to furlough him/her. Whether the scheme allows it won't change the fact that it is the at the employer's discretion and whilst we (and Martin) can ask nicely, some employers have always just been bad people that do not care about their employees, and they won't change.

gary83

It doesn’t matter what Martin Lewis say though, he didn’t write the policy, the government did & their definition of furlough which is the criteria you need to fulfil in order to get the government assistance, the opening lines on the government’s guidance is still;

If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.

that refers to “they’re unable to operate” as in the employer, it does not refer to “you are unable to operate” meaning the employee for medical reasons or childcare issues, furlough wasn’t intended for either of those reasons , it was meant to support the employer, it’s not a makeshift welfare system for childcare reasons to be eligible that definition would need to change.

Undervalued

gary83 said:

It doesn’t matter what Martin Lewis say though, he didn’t write the policy, the government did & their definition of furlough which is the criteria you need to fulfil in order to get the government assistance, the opening lines on the government’s guidance is still;

If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.

that refers to “they’re unable to operate” as in the employer, it does not refer to “you are unable to operate” meaning the employee for medical reasons or childcare issues, furlough wasn’t intended for either of those reasons , it was meant to support the employer, it’s not a makeshift welfare system for childcare reasons to be eligible that definition would need to change.

Exactly!!!!

gary83

mobilejo said:

BBunter said:

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

It sounds like you at least are willing to furlough them.

In the OPs case, none of this is relevant if they just don't want to furlough him/her. Whether the scheme allows it won't change the fact that it is the at the employer's discretion and whilst we (and Martin) can ask nicely, some employers have always just been bad people that do not care about their employees, and they won't change.

It’s not about employers being bad people it’s about companies who are going through uncertain times needing to follow the guidance to make sure they can claim the furlough money back from the government, you can’t really blame companies or their HR departments responsible for the rules of a scheme that the government wrote.

BBunter

gary83 said:

It doesn’t matter what Martin Lewis say though, he didn’t write the policy, the government did & their definition of furlough which is the criteria you need to fulfil in order to get the government assistance, the opening lines on the government’s guidance is still;

If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.

that refers to “they’re unable to operate” as in the employer, it does not refer to “you are unable to operate” meaning the employee for medical reasons or childcare issues, furlough wasn’t intended for either of those reasons , it was meant to support the employer, it’s not a makeshift welfare system for childcare reasons to be eligible that definition would need to change.

Unfortunately that is how I read the situation as well, in this particular case Martin Lewis is not helping the situation - I have staff sharing his post on facebook and tagging me in on it.... 

mobilejo

gary83 said:

mobilejo said:

BBunter said:

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

It sounds like you at least are willing to furlough them.

In the OPs case, none of this is relevant if they just don't want to furlough him/her. Whether the scheme allows it won't change the fact that it is the at the employer's discretion and whilst we (and Martin) can ask nicely, some employers have always just been bad people that do not care about their employees, and they won't change.

It’s not about employers being bad people it’s about companies who are going through uncertain times needing to follow the guidance to make sure they can claim the furlough money back from the government, you can’t really blame companies or their HR departments responsible for the rules of a scheme that the government wrote.

Yes sometimes. And in the OP's case, I do not know their motivation.

I was speaking in more general terms - there are some bad employers out there, and I'm simply saying that they won't change because of the current situation.

Undervalued

mobilejo said:

gary83 said:

mobilejo said:

BBunter said:

However the CBI states : 

If an employee asks to be furloughed because they cannot work due to childcare responsibilities (because of nursery/school closures) can an employer agree to this?  

The guidance does not clarify this question.  

I have staff in this situation but cannot afford to pay them without further clarification from the government

It sounds like you at least are willing to furlough them.

In the OPs case, none of this is relevant if they just don't want to furlough him/her. Whether the scheme allows it won't change the fact that it is the at the employer's discretion and whilst we (and Martin) can ask nicely, some employers have always just been bad people that do not care about their employees, and they won't change.

It’s not about employers being bad people it’s about companies who are going through uncertain times needing to follow the guidance to make sure they can claim the furlough money back from the government, you can’t really blame companies or their HR departments responsible for the rules of a scheme that the government wrote.

Yes sometimes. And in the OP's case, I do not know their motivation.

I was speaking in more general terms - there are some bad employers out there, and I'm simply saying that they won't change because of the current situation.

Indeed. However there are also some "bad" employees out there either trying to milk the situation or, at least, seem the expect every supplier and employer to absorb all of the problem which is no more their fault than it is the individual's fault.