Reclaim Golf club Membership fees

Cardy1963

Can someone please advise if I am able to claim a refund on my Golf Club Membership fees whilst it is closed due to the Covid-19 crisis? Our fees are roughly £2000 per annum and this crisis could see the facilities closed for some time. It is not a members course but a sole proprietorship, the members have been informed that no refunds will be given during this period but I wonder where we stand legally? Should we be paying for something that isn't available? I was thinking of writing to the management and asking for a 1/52 refund for every week they are closed, this equates to around £38.50.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Cardy1963

7Phil

Do your membership terms set this out, about what happens if the facilities are closed for an extended period? I would hazard a guess that golf clubs cannot afford to refund its members based purely on a global pandemic shutting their gates. You pay membership in to a club and the costs of maintaining the grounds are not going to go away. Instead your membership goes in to the club pool of funds, of which you will all benefit from in the long run.

I guess you are aware your issue is in the lower scale of priorities right now... For me I have an annual train season ticket. I personally think I am fortunate to be able to get a pro-rata refund for the unused portion on my season ticket. I put my refund request in over 2 weeks ago and am still waiting on a response. Not sure if that helps put things in perspective?

hb2

My sports club isn't giving refunds but is going to extend this year's membership by as many months as they are closed. Maybe you could suggest that your golf club do the same thing? 

kennysarmy

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

This suggests you are entitled to a refund. I'm also at a Proprietary club and for the Jan to Mar. lockdown they are freezing membership sub for the 2021/22 season and giving anyone who wants it ~ £150 on a bar tab. Both of these are not so great options for me as I won't be renewing my membership.
Our clubs terms and conditions state:

We reserve the right to reserve the facilities at any time for the purposes of conferences, weddings, social events and activities.

We reserve the right to close the course in full or in part or otherwise to restrict access onto the course at our sole discretion. This may happen at any time and without notice, on a temporary basis which may be for an extended period of time, due to inclement weather, repair, maintenance, development, alteration or any other reason determined by the Complex Manager.

Any such closure or restriction shall not entitle any member to any refund of any fees, subscription or other sums paid

I don't think these apply in such a forced closure due to the pandemic.

I'm considering writing to the owners to request a cash refund equivalent to the bar tab as in my opinion the contract between the owners and myself has been frustrated.

mrsS_2

I'm considering writing to the owners to request a cash refund equivalent to the bar tab as in my opinion the contract between the owners and myself has been frustrated

I think your club will be unwilling to do this for the simple reason that putting £150 on your bad card only costs them the margin on your food or beverage purchases -eg if industry standard has a 65% gp  it has only actually cost them £97.50?   

Obviously if you are able to use your bar card to pay for competition entry or purchases from the pro shop then the margin will be different again.   

Thrugelmir

Cardy1963 said:

Should we be paying for something that isn't available? 

Should the proprietor then go to their bankers and say. Our members want refunds so we don't want to repay the loan we took out to purchase the business ?  As we are unable to generate revenue to service our debts. 

Also turn to the staff and say we are in a position where we can no longer top up your furlough. 

Where does it all end?  

No doubt you'd cancel your future membership anyway if the facilities weren't maintained in a pristine manner. 

kennysarmy

Thrugelmir said:

Cardy1963 said:

Should we be paying for something that isn't available? 

Should the proprietor then go to their bankers and say. Our members want refunds so we don't want to repay the loan we took out to purchase the business ?  As we are unable to generate revenue to service our debts. 

Also turn to the staff and say we are in a position where we can no longer top up your furlough. 

Where does it all end?  

No doubt you'd cancel your future membership anyway if the facilities weren't maintained in a pristine manner. 

Not sure you're understanding.
They've still been taking in all the membership monthly direct debits, you're making it sound like I'm asking for money back they don't have
Whilst I appreciate they may not have been making the profits they might ordinarily make, surely a sound business can pretty much lock it's doors, furlough all it's staff and survive with minimum income. With say 800 members all paying on average £60 per month I'd love to know where that £150,000 went which would have accrued during January, February and March? 

Aylesbury_Duck

kennysarmy said:

Thrugelmir said:

Cardy1963 said:

Should we be paying for something that isn't available? 

Should the proprietor then go to their bankers and say. Our members want refunds so we don't want to repay the loan we took out to purchase the business ?  As we are unable to generate revenue to service our debts. 

Also turn to the staff and say we are in a position where we can no longer top up your furlough. 

Where does it all end?  

No doubt you'd cancel your future membership anyway if the facilities weren't maintained in a pristine manner. 

Not sure you're understanding.
They've still been taking in all the membership monthly direct debits, you're making it sound like I'm asking for money back they don't have
Whilst I appreciate they may not have been making the profits they might ordinarily make, surely a sound business can pretty much lock it's doors, furlough all it's staff and survive with minimum income. With say 800 members all paying on average £60 per month I'd love to know where that £150,000 went which would have accrued during January, February and March? 

You could always ask them.

Thrugelmir

kennysarmy said:

Thrugelmir said:

Cardy1963 said:

Should we be paying for something that isn't available? 

Should the proprietor then go to their bankers and say. Our members want refunds so we don't want to repay the loan we took out to purchase the business ?  As we are unable to generate revenue to service our debts. 

Also turn to the staff and say we are in a position where we can no longer top up your furlough. 

Where does it all end?  

No doubt you'd cancel your future membership anyway if the facilities weren't maintained in a pristine manner. 

Not sure you're understanding.
They've still been taking in all the membership monthly direct debits, you're making it sound like I'm asking for money back they don't have

My basic understanding would be that they've still got an outgoing cashflow while suffering from a reduced income ( no green fees etc). To assume that they are simply building a huge bank balance is erroneous. 

Place a stop against the direct debit and cancel your membership. 

mrsS_2

I Can tell you exactly where their £150000 has gone:

paying green keepers wages in full-I know it is winter so not so much grass mowing but all the greens team will have been verti draining, carrying out winter tree works and keeping the course in top condition so that it can re- open on 29 March.    Many clubs have taken the opportunity of empty courses to bring forward such things as hollow coring etc which again cost in terms of seed and chemicals and staff time

The landlord will still have wanted their rent payment every month although I concede that the club will probably have qualified for rates relief

The club have probably furloughed just about everyone apart from the general manager but these staff will still be being paid for holidays, national insurance and pension.  That’s assuming that the club hasn’t topped up the other 20%.   There is a widespread misconception that furlough is cost free to the company.  Far from it.     

Clubs have made staff redundant. Particularly catering staff but there is only so far you can go as they need to have good quality competent staff ready to serve the membership every time they reopen.  If there was no one to make or serve the meals there would be many complaints

The club house still needs maintaining  and heating even if no members are using it and there are often contracts for photocopiers, phones, line cleaning equipment etc that cannot be stopped

Closing in December with 4 days notice after all the Christmas food and drink had been ordered with no one to sell it to and no way of getting a refund from the suppliers has cost many clubs £1000s
I can see that you haven’t had the service you have paid for but if your club hands back money to everyone it won’t be there in a years time.