New job won't start, old job won't furlough

ckay1992

I have found myself in a very difficult situation. I was supposed to start a new job on Monday and have letters confirming my continuous employment with that company from Monday the 30th, along with confirmation of my remaining annual leave for the year and a pay roll number. Yesterday, less than 2 working days before I was due to start they said that my start would be delayed until June due to coronavirus and that I wouldn't be paid. As I had not been working with this company since Feb 28th, they can't apply for my furlough.

Following on from the Martin Lewis show yesterday, it appeared that my previous employer (of 7 years) could take me back onto pay roll so that I could then be furloughed. I approached them and asked them to do this. They spoke with their accountant who said that they wouldn't do this as one, they would need to pay my 20% tax and NI contributions, two they would need to pay to set me back up on pay roll, three, they thought it would be fraudulent to set me back up just for furlough and four, I left of my own accord (notice given well before the virus crisis).

I had a company car that has been returned to my old employer and I live in a rural village so can't get to the local supermarkets to work although all the jobs there seem to now be taken.
My wife works for the NHS on the frontline and her salary means I can't get universal credits.
We will most likely need to use the 3 month mortgage holiday and just hope that my new job will start in June but we just don't know and I can't see how without a car during lockdown I will get temporary work.

It seems bonkers that I will just have to exist without a form of income or benefit until my new employer decides to start me, this could go on well passed June.

Does anyone have any advice, is there anything I can do at all? Is my previous employer right not to furlough me?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

All the best,

CK

Jeremy535897

I think the problem is that you left of your own accord. If you had been made redundant post 28 February, the guidance says you can be rehired and furloughed, but it doesn't apply in your case. The only things left are universal credit, plus a mortgage holiday.

TheAble

Is there really no work you can do round your area? Just something short-term to tide you over?

ckay1992

I live in a small village with a Co-op which is fully staffed. The only other village in walking or biking distance also only has a co-op, fully staffed. The closest supermarket advertising is 30 miles away. With lockdown in effect there is little else I can do.

[Deleted User]

Is there something you can do using your home computer, if you've got one?

r6rym

Jeremy535897 said:

I think the problem is that you left of your own accord. If you had been made redundant post 28 February, the guidance says you can be rehired and furloughed, but it doesn't apply in your case. The only things left are universal credit, plus a mortgage holiday.

This does seem absurd though as he had a role with a confirmed start date. There will be hundreds of people trapped by this situation which is totally unfair. You leave one employer with the full expectation of joining another, in some cases the next working day, only to find that you are only entitled to universal credit rather than at least 80% of your salary like the rest of the working population now sidelined. I would suggest that we lobby to amend this ruling as it will potentially plunge many employees into a financial situation the do not deserve to be in. 

If at the end of this special period of furlough payments, there is no job, then universal credit should take over and I am afraid that will certainly be the case for some. But if during this initial 3 month period we can prevent families falling into dire personal circumstance, thus potentially making them a greater burden on the state as a result, that is the rationale and moral thing to do. 

Jeremy535897

You could always try suing your new employer, if there is a breach of an enforceable contract of employment, but this is an employment law question on which I'm not competent to comment, and not an ideal way to start a new job.

7Phil

I see two pathways:
1: I don't believe the accountant's main issue is valid - but a lot of info was released last night so he may not be aware or you might have been speaking to him before yesterday. As far as we understand the rules so far the reimbursed payment would include employers NIC and pension contributions and all employment costs including those are capped at £2,500. It's not just your salary that can be recovered as far as we know so far. It will come down to their discretion though and whether they accept any risks to help you out.

2: Seek advice on where you stand with the delay of the start date of the new job. You may be entitled to damages based on how it was all done. If you have a signed letter of offer that does not have any conditions about delaying the start date then it will be hard for the business to back away from that. Where that leaves you I am not sure but I would seek legal advice regardless.

Rose_Hill12345

Hi 
I have been posting a lot about this situation and doing research, because I am in a similar predicament. 
I have asked my local MP why there is a cut off of 28 February and she has told me that the Government's intention behind the scheme is that anyone who was on PAYE and working for a UK company on the date of the announcement of the scheme will be covered. She also said that the cut-off date of 28 February was simply introduced to prevent businesses suddenly recruiting hundreds of employees and asking the government to pay for them.
As Martin Lewis said on TV last night, the purpose of the scheme is purely to enable companies to act as a "mechanism to provide social security" to all those who are on PAYE.

In essence, the government is aiming to provide a social security system to all those who were on payroll/PAYE as at 28 February, irrespective of who employed them at the time.
I have told my MP that the guidance for the scheme is extremely vague and that we do need clarity, because employers and employees alike are becoming confused by the mixed messages from the government. The MP said she takes me point and that she will raise it. 
In the meantime, I have told my former employer of this and they agree that they should be able to furlough me until I can join my new firm. 
I would add that the accountant in the OP's scenario is wrong. Employers can claim back 80% of the wage from the government and do not have to top up the remaining 20%. The employer can also claim back NI contributions and auto enrollment pension contributions.
I hope this helps.

Rose_Hill12345

... to clarify, I resigned my position and lined up a new role which I now cannot start due to coronavirus. Strangely, the fact that I had resigned as opposed to being made redundant does seem to be irrelevant here. The government's aim simply is that anyone on PAYE as of 28 February 2020 is entitled to join this scheme (as long as whoever  employed you at the time agrees to it).
I know that this is not at all what the guidance suggests, which is why I have asked my MP to clarify. 

Jeremy535897

I will be most interested to see what comes of this.