Current fraud with supposed "no-claims bonuses"

shelly

DanG wrote: »

I increasingly wonder whether it is worthwhile for the better educated and more aware amongst us to continue to attempt to help others on this forum, where we get such inane and unaware postings being made by the arrogant and ignorant, as if those denigrating the warnings given were highly educated and had specialist knowledge in the area, relative to others. This seems to be occurring much more frequently now on this forum, and is spoiling its efficacy.

Which group do you belong to? Red or blue? Or are you just a troll out for a reaction?

iceicebaby

To the OP

I too work in the insurance industry and have done for 10 years, so I do have plenty of experience and knowledge thanks

movilogo

Yes. The fact that you have had one accident (although not your fault) makes it statistically more likely you will have another accident within the next 3 years.

There are 3 types of lies
1. Simple lies
2. Great lies
3. Statistics

Insurers are doing business, so they will use statistics in the fashion a drunkard uses lamp post, for support rather than illumination They simply expect that you pay them and never claim. If you ever claim (doesn't matter if its your fault or not), you have eaten their profit. So, you must get a penalty ( = increased premium).

Andy_L

If you hadn't protected your NCB you'd have an increased premium & no (less) discount.

mattymoo

movilogo wrote: »

There are 3 types of lies
1. Simple lies
2. Great lies
3. Statistics

Insurers are doing business, so they will use statistics in the fashion a drunkard uses lamp post, for support rather than illumination They simply expect that you pay them and never claim. If you ever claim (doesn't matter if its your fault or not), you have eaten their profit. So, you must get a penalty ( = increased premium).

Although the insurers do hold those statistics and analyse them to the nth degree to set premiums, I was paraphrasing from the Police Roadcraft Handbook.

espresso

DanG wrote: »

...........................This seems to make it questionable now whether it is worth paying the additional premium to supposedly protect your no-claims bonus?

Protecting your NCB by paying the additional premium is optional, so if you don't think that it is worth it, then don't do it, simple!

drrdf

It seems that some insurers are still being honest and sticking to the original concept of "no-claims discount". If what some posters on here, who claim to work in the insurance industry, state is the means by which some insurers are now distorting this original concept without stating the change in their policy terms, then what it means is that you must select your insurer more carefully to avoid these types of tricksters.

Here is the statement of More Than on their web site:

Why Choose Motor Insurance from MORE TH>N?

Our Car Triple Promise

With our car insurance triple promise,

• Protect your maximum no claims bonus for the life of your policy meaning
• We won't raise your premium when you make a claim and
• We'll give you 15% discount online.

Find out more about our maximum no claims bonus for life.
Personal Customer Manager

As a MORE TH>N policyholder purchasing online with effect from 01st September 2007, we will automatically provide you with your very own Personal Customer Manager in our UK based dedicated team. That means every time you need to contact us, you’ll get through to the same person who will be happy to provide answers to your insurance related queries.
If you are not purchasing on-line and are an existing customer who would like to register for this service, please click here



See http://www.morethan.com/Pages/Products/Car/WhyChooseUs.aspx

That is the way it always used to be, and the way it should still be with an honest and reputable insurer. Clearly the warning must be, avoid the other insurers who are scammers.

I would suggest, Dan, that you do report these incidents which you have isolated, as has been suggested, but to the FSA, FSO and ABI. These scammers need to be made aware that their activities contravene the regulations, in that they are not being honest and straightforward about how they are applying no claims discounts and bonuses to their motor policies!

raskazz

Like the original post, this is incorrect, and whilst the language used might suggest a knowledge of the industry, the content is ultimately ill-informed.

drrdf wrote: »

It seems that some insurers are still being honest and sticking to the original concept of "no-claims discount". If what some posters on here, who claim to work in the insurance industry, state is the means by which some insurers are now distorting this original concept without stating the change in their policy terms, then what it means is that you must select your insurer more carefully to avoid these types of tricksters.

The concept of "no-claims discount" is unchanged. Do you actually mean the concept of protected no-claims discount?

drrdf wrote: »

Here is the statement of More Than on their web site:

Why Choose Motor Insurance from MORE TH>N?

Our Car Triple Promise

With our car insurance triple promise,

• Protect your maximum no claims bonus for the life of your policy meaning
• We won't raise your premium when you make a claim and
• We'll give you 15% discount online.

Find out more about our maximum no claims bonus for life.
Personal Customer Manager

As a MORE TH>N policyholder purchasing online with effect from 01st September 2007, we will automatically provide you with your very own Personal Customer Manager in our UK based dedicated team. That means every time you need to contact us, you’ll get through to the same person who will be happy to provide answers to your insurance related queries.
If you are not purchasing on-line and are an existing customer who would like to register for this service, please click here



See http://www.morethan.com/Pages/Products/Car/WhyChooseUs.aspx

That is the way it always used to be, and the way it should still be with an honest and reputable insurer. Clearly the warning must be, avoid the other insurers who are scammers.

This is plainly incorrect. This is not the way it always used to be. This 'promise' is actually an extension of the traditional protected NCD concept, that is offered by More Than as an advertising gimmick. The fact that other insurers offer a different level of protected NCD does not make them 'scammers' - unless, like the original poster, you are a fan of knee-jerk tabloid reactions.

More Than's eligibility rules for this advertised protection are actually quite tight, and they state that your premium can still increase if they review their rates - so in reality it doesn't guarantee anything.

drrdf wrote: »

I would suggest, Dan, that you do report these incidents which you have isolated, as has been suggested, but to the FSA, FSO and ABI. These scammers need to be made aware that their activities contravene the regulations, in that they are not being honest and straightforward about how they are applying no claims discounts and bonuses to their motor policies!

Absolute tosh. Contravene 'the regulations'? What regulations? Care to point me towards the rule in ICOB which is broken? Whichever individual NCD terms are offered, insurers are being honest in how they apply discounts - it's all there in policy documentation. The 'scammers' are people who purvey ignorant opinion on MSE, masquerading as fact.

I might even hazard that this poster is a sockpuppet.

drrdf

The point this supposed "sockpuppet" (according to one poster here) was attempting to put forward is that those insurance companies not being straightforward with their method of renewal premium setting relative to no-claims discount, particularly where there is a protected no-claims discount in force, are using this as an unfair commercial advantage against their honest and straightforward competitors, by not declaring that the only reason their premium to new customers may seem to be lower is that they intend to re coop even more in other ways from the insured by playing dirty! Another method they use is to have "documentation change" fees which are way above the industry average, and then not to inform customers of this until after purchase! They also use disguised Premium numbers for their Customer Services or for claims to be made - another method of ripping-off their customers clandestinely.

I have been a member of this forum for more than 4 years; how is it that the OP suggests I could be a "sockpuppet"?

Why is it that this subject seems to be bringing out the very worst in posters here? Many of them seem to be getting rude and aggressive about this issue. It must have touched a very sensitive nerve with some here? It is an important issue just like the other ways in which insurers now attempt to deceive potential customers. They have become increasingly like internet mobile phone retailers!

Raskass, you state, with respect to the statement of More Than: "This is plainly incorrect. This is not the way it always used to be. This 'promise' is actually an extension of the traditional protected NCD concept, that is offered by More Than as an advertising gimmick. The fact that other insurers offer a different level of protected NCD does not make them 'scammers' - unless, like the original poster, you are a fan of knee-jerk tabloid reactions." Are you alleging that the published statement of More Than is not true? That is a serious allegation surely?

I am not a "fan of knee-jerk reactions", in fact quite the reverse. I always look at the evidence carefully before coming to any conclusion. I have had motor insurance for more than 50 years myself. I can assure you from my experience, that is the way it used to be! It is interesting that previously the term "no claims discount" was used rather than "no-claims bonus". It may be that now in practice there is a difference, and that may be part of this confusion?

Lesley Campbell of The Daily Record has published an interesting bit about the ways insurers are now competing, which it seems is what this issue is really perhaps all about.



"Companies in every part of the financial arena adopt ridiculous strategies to obscure the price of their products because they want to avoid direct comparison between products - if a client can make the decision easily, they will simply pick the cheapest and all the other providers will have to compete by cutting their profit margins to the bone. To avoid this direct price competition, they each turn simple contracts into labyrinths of subclauses making it virtually impossible to compare like with like.
Margins are tight in this business and any real introductory discount has to be paid for somewhere - you can bet it's not the company's profits that will absorb it.

If you've chosen your policy, make sure you factor in the way the policy increases in cost year on year - and be prepared for a prolonged and very tedious exercise.


I TRY to help everyone who writes in, but sometimes the volume of letters makes this impossible. Please put your full name and phone number on your letter or email. Don't send any original documents or include your account details.


You can email me at readers champion@aol.com or write to me, Lesley Campbell, at Daily Record, One Central Quay, Glasgow G3 8DA"

I think it is all about transparency. Customers need insurers to be transparent about the details of a policy in all respects before they commit to buying.

mattymoo

drrdf wrote: »

Raskass, you state, with respect to the statement of More Than: "This is plainly incorrect. This is not the way it always used to be. This 'promise' is actually an extension of the traditional protected NCD concept, that is offered by More Than as an advertising gimmick. The fact that other insurers offer a different level of protected NCD does not make them 'scammers' - unless, like the original poster, you are a fan of knee-jerk tabloid reactions." Are you alleging that the published statement of More Than is not true? That is a serious allegation surely?

I suspect the sticking point is "This is not the way it always used to be" quote. Loading of base premium following claims (before applying the NCD) has always been the norm. More Than are offering something new although as Raskazz points out, they can still amend their base rates upon which the premium is calculated. The insurance market is currently in a soft market (competition driving down prices) but this is cyclical and a hard market is only a year or two away. Hard markets occur when losses exceed premium (because they have been driven down too low) and insurers revert to book rates (also called the technical premium) and adopt a take it or leave it attitude. When the hard market occurs (note the "when", not if) More Than rates will rise across the board so their guarantee will appear to hold less interest then.

"Companies in every part of the financial arena adopt ridiculous strategies to obscure the price of their products because they want to avoid direct comparison between products - if a client can make the decision easily, they will simply pick the cheapest and all the other providers will have to compete by cutting their profit margins to the bone. To avoid this direct price competition, they each turn simple contracts into labyrinths of subclauses making it virtually impossible to compare like with like.
Margins are tight in this business and any real introductory discount has to be paid for somewhere - you can bet it's not the company's profits that will absorb it.

If you've chosen your policy, make sure you factor in the way the policy increases in cost year on year - and be prepared for a prolonged and very tedious exercise.

The journalist has taken a rather simplistic view. If everyone competed on price then the policy would end up the bare minimum to comply with legislation and offer a no-frills service.
A lot of firms try to differentiate themselves. The main differences lie in the courtesy cars / hire cars available to policyholders (or not) and inner policy limits for things like personal effects and In Car Entertainment equipment. A broker would establish a clients needs before recommending a policy. By buying direct on the phone or internet, you have to accept that it is your job to do that research and select the correct product for your needs.

I think it is all about transparency. Customers need insurers to be transparent about the details of a policy in all respects before they commit to buying.

FSA regulations have brought in a large amount of transparency in the contracts. Admin charges are now stipulated and return premium rates (for early cancellation of a policy) are shown in policy booklets, all of which can be downloaded or viewed on websites. This did not occur pre-FSA regs. You received a notice of additional premium with no indication of how that figure had been arrived at.