SunWeb offering vouchers instead of refund

Aylesbury_Duck

mattg4321 said:

The alternative is the general public being hit in the pocket and the travel industry suffering a catastrophic loss of confidence - if the likes of ATOL, ABTA, SGR, Section 75, insurance etc etc etc don't pay out as we've all been told for years they absolutely would. This will have huge long term consequences for the industry and the sector will be hit very hard for years to come.

I doubt it.  What this crisis has shown is that people love a bargain and don't fully understand what they've bought and in a lot of cases, who they've bought it from.  Witness the hundreds of posts from people who've only read the terms of their deposit agreement, package holiday, airline ticket, accommodation booking or insurance policy now they've got a problem.  And many more from people who've bought from web-based travel agents you've never heard of and now realise they're operating from a tiny industrial unit off the M11 or someone's back bedroom and don't have a call centre with hundreds of staff on hand to answer their queries.

There will be enormous consequences in the short term, and the medium term if the virus remains uncontrolled for months but in the long term?  No.  People will quickly forget and spend their time scraping the web for the lowest possible price on the trip they've saved months for, buying the cheapest insurance policy on a comparison site without understanding what level of cover or excess it offers, handing their car keys over to a bloke in a shed in a field three miles from the airport, and wondering why sometimes it all goes wrong.  Companies will go under as a result of this, but new ones will spring up to fill the gap in the market for the gullible and unwary.

mattyprice4004

The above is absolutely spot on - the amount of posts from people that have bought flights from Bob's Travel Shed and now are galling at the cancellation fees is astonishing. 

As to the rest of the thread, it's all well and good discussing what would happen in an ideal world - but this isn't an ideal world, and the companies simply don't have the cash to refund. 
Either take a voucher, or push for a refund knowing full well they might go under; then you're left with no refund, no voucher and no travel company. 

Some give and take is required in these unusual times. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Hey, don't mock Bob's Travel Shed.  I bought my two-week cruise in Luxembourg from him.  He's got two phones and an internet computer, so I'm sure I'll be able to speak to him about my refund soon.

mattg4321

I think most people contributing here understand the concept of 'give and take'. However some travel operators seem to prefer 'take take take'. I know of other people with holidays booked recently, who have already received a refund. 

If people have booked with supposedly reputable companies who are ABTA regulated and/or ATOL protected they could reasonably assume they will be compensated if, through no fault of their own, the holiday does not go ahead. In this case it requires government intervention, the same as it did for savers in 2008 (some of whom were covered for lost savings outside of the FSA scheme).

I think most of us would accept the current ABTA policy of a cash refund sometime around 31st July. I know I would. I would like Sunweb to adhere to ABTA advice in this instance. 9 months isn't really acceptable, and we don't know how much protection SGR will provide us if (when?) Sunweb go under.

Westin

mattg4321 said:

Do you work in the travel industry @Browntoa ?

The government has to step in soon with some sort of temporary rules/legislation. That is of course unless they are expecting the consumer to force travel operators through the courts to provide cash refunds as is the current law. 

Perhaps they could say that the vouchers could be issued and then a cash refund can be had if unused after a period of 3 or 4 months. These vouchers need to be government backed in the meantime against the operator going bust.

The alternative is the general public being hit in the pocket and the travel industry suffering a catastrophic loss of confidence - if the likes of ATOL, ABTA, SGR, Section 75, insurance etc etc etc don't pay out as we've all been told for years they absolutely would. This will have huge long term consequences for the industry and the sector will be hit very hard for years to come.

Firstly, +1 to the response already given by Aylesbury_Duck.(11:35)

I would normally have bitten my tongue or walked away from my keyboard.  Your last post really disappoints and shows to me absolute disdain to others.  You come over very much as caring only about yourself and no one else. I find this disappointing.

Whether Browntoa works in the travel industry or not (and I have no idea) - does it matter?  At least he/she is trying to answer the numerous and often repetitive questions on the forum at the moment.  Guidance in many posts is given by he/she to try and help and advise others.  You just seem to focus on your own issue. 

Next up the point you make which are highlight above.   

Yes - that would be nice and idea but have you considered that other thing are going on at the moment?  The issue I am sure has been highlighted and on their long list of things to do but I expect various Government departments and agencies are prioritising work.  I expect it will be addressed but in due course.

Personally I would rather the Government focused at the moment on things like supporting our NHS, up scaling ICU beds and securing respirators for our most sickest, caring for those in our community who need food, shelter and medicines. Introducing and implementing policies for people not able to work and ensuring furloughed staff money to continue to feed their families.  The list goes on.  Lots to do and lots more importance than a refund on your TUI or Sunweb package holiday.

Try to put things into prospective. 
Please show patient.  Please show understanding of others. Please understand National priorities. 

#Forbearance ~ not ~ #OnlyAboutMe.  

mattg4321

I think the post on this thread at 11.49 today is probably the best example here of showing absolute disdain to others.

I'm sure you're aware that some people are not receiving government help, due to their employment situation. Others are in need of money straight away. I was simply making the point that many of us require some clarity as to when we will receive our money back. ABTA's guidelines on this are fine by me. Sunweb should confirm they are intending to follow them. Just because one persons immediate financial position is secure and they can put food on the table doesn't necessarily mean anothers is too.

ABTA themselves say that France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands have already taken action to provide guidance or amend laws. It seems the UK Government finds itself behind on the curve on this. 

Browntoa

No , I don't work in the industry .

But I'm a realist , where's the cash coming from. The credit card companies aren't probably going to bail out the whole travel industry , it would probably bankrupt them as well.

I'd agree with a government fallback guarantee of payment of vouchers although I doubt even in 4 months that the travel industry will be in any better financial situation , they need new cash bookings to regain fluidity . It's the same situation the banks were in during 2008-2009. 

mattg4321

I've now received my 'corona voucher'. It says the issue date is 31st May. After 6 months I could ask for a cash refund, which will then be paid within a further 3 months. Taking us till 31st February 2021. Seems a long way out of step with ABTA's current advice to their operators/customers which is a cash refund 31st July 2020. Should Sunweb be complying with this?

Does anyone know much about the SGR scheme? Is my voucher actually properly protected by this scheme?

What is everyone planning to do? I'm not against a voucher totally, but almost a year after the holiday to get a refund seems a bit unfair - unless of course the travel industry is shut down for that long? I'd like to think Sunweb could've set the date sooner - in line with ABTA, and re evaluate at set intervals. Also are we protected by SGR is Sunweb go under?

Alan_Bowen

Your problem is the company is not UK based but operates from The Netherlands. The SRG scheme is the Dutch financial protection scheme,   the Dutch government has allegedly changed the law so they can offer vouchers. The problem is that you have little chance of getting anything else as the Dutch airline KLM is in financial difficulties and pressurised the government to change the law to protect them. The UK law probably doesn't apply since each country can implement the Package Travel Directive as they see fit.

mattg4321

ABTA have been on the TV saying they will take action against members not complying with their guidelines. Let's hope they do. I've already made a complaint against Sunweb with them.