help please section 75 claim rejected.

happyhero

I need some guidance please how to proceed. I'm going to try and keep this short.

My wife searched for Houses/villas in Sardinia to rent and found one on AIRBNB.

I paid AIRBNB for the house they advertised with my Barclaycard credit card in 2 instalments as they requested.

My family I, a party of 8, including grandkids etc. went on holiday to Sardinia (Italy) in August 2019.

There were a lot of problems with the house, grounds and pool. I list a few things for a basic idea.

There were electrical, water, accommodation problems.

Sewage tank strong smells into house from outside

Features promised broken, i.e. diving board big crack across the middle, basketball hoop pulled down broken

Broken tiles everywhere on property on steps, floor with some very dangerous and sharp edges

Wardrobes full

Beds badly stained

Sockets falling/hanging off the wall

Taps not connected to sink

All the owners stuff was in the house so we all had to live out of our suitcases

Kitchen equipment was missing

 

The list seems endless, and believe me I am not a fussy person this place was bad. It’s difficult to get the full picture across unless you were there.

 

It may have been good once as shown in the ad but it had gone downhill a long way since then. I think over time as things got damaged or worn nothing has been done regarding fixing things and regular maintenance.

 

We complained several times to the owners, sometimes they reacted but did the minimal, sometimes they took ages to respond and sometimes nothing happened.

We complained to AIRBNB who we bought the 2 weeks from at this house and after a lot of exhausting chat for my wife with them they said they could not refund us anything. They were not very clear but the main reason they were sticking to is the fact we didn't report things to them in the required 24 hours. That is an unrealistic time especially on holiday and especially as we reported things to the Landlord first in the hope he would do the decent thing, sometimes waiting 2 days for a response or getting no response at all. We explained this to AIRBNB and they agreed it was correct to approach the Landlord first but they were not very interested in it failing and the time it took.

Anyway we decided we had no option left but to use section 75 with Barclaycard. They wanted a ton of paperwork, terms and conditions, guarantees, etc. They would not supply an email for this correspondence so I posted 1 1/2" of paperwork to them, nearly £10 postage. I had no choice as they had a warning on their site stating if any item listed is not supplied in full they would reject the claim.

I waited about 6 weeks and then asked them for an update before getting a letter at about 7 weeks saying they are rejecting the claim as the purchase was through an intermediary.

I know about this rule but I didn't deal/pay the Landlord/owner, I bought the 2 weeks off of AIRBNB and I made sure in my claim to point out I bought it off of AIRBNB and I was claiming from them for being miss-sold.

My wife didn’t search for Landlords and then pay for one via AIRBNB. If AIRBNB has been lied to by the Landlord/owner then that’s a problem for them to fight out between them. My transaction was with AIRBNB.

I liken it to buying for example a Philips electrical item from Argos. If it is faulty, is my grievance with Philips or Argos? Well of course it is with Argos. I don’t care who makes the item or where Argos gets it from.

Unlike this scenario,

 

If I found something on EBay and used PayPal to pay for it. (Not a great example), thinking of EBay as the Landlord and PayPal as AIRBNB, I'd have to complain to EBay seller if it didn’t work, not PayPal.

Ok I know in real life PayPal would help me but hopefully you get my point in the 2 different ways of paying for something. I wish I could have come up with a better example. Tell me of a better one please.

Anyway for arguments sake, assume my case is justified and very much so, (I just can't explain it all), how do I now proceed, my reply from Barclaycard says case closed and I’ve failed. Is it finished or is this the normal thing to happen, i.e. do I challenge it now?

 

The 2 payments to AIRBNB for the property for 2 weeks for 8 people were £1839.52 each. So it cost enough.

I know what Google says and advises but I am interested in some general guidance from the people on here as I am not feeling very confident at the moment.

 

I would really appreciate some comments and advice if possible please.

 

[Deleted User]

All you can do is challenge it and if unsuccessful, go to FOS.  There's no consistent policy on third party payments.

Tildaplum

You are right in your examples about buying a Philips hair dryer from Argos and about buying from eBay with PayPal

I think the problem with airbnb (and you might want to check this) is that you are not actually buying from airbnb. i think you will find airbnb say they are acting as 'agents' for the villa Owners

This implies your claim is against the villa owner as airbnb are only acting as an agent - your first port of call is definitely to look at the airbnb terms and conditions and see what they say as I'm sure they would definitely say something!

Perhaps others who use airbnb can clarify the position further

born_again

>> I liken it to buying for example a Philips electrical item from Argos. If it is faulty, is my grievance with Philips or Argos? Well of course it is with Argos. I don’t care who makes the item or where Argos gets it from.<<
 As to who is responsible that is down to the UK consumer regulations. Or Phillips Warranty.

>>If I found something on EBay and used PayPal to pay for it. (Not a great example), thinking of EBay as the Landlord and PayPal as AIRBNB, I'd have to complain to EBay seller if it didn’t work, not PayPal.<<

But ebay are not the seller of the item.
Seller > Ebay (advertising platform) > paypal (payment provider).
in your case
Owner of Vila (landlord)> Airbnb (advertising platform) > Credit card.

The issue is that as you paid Airbnb & not the owner direct their is no Debtor - Creditor link. Even though you say you are claiming against Airbnb, they will most likely be covered by their T/C that state they are not responsible for descriptions of properties.

Ergates

happyhero said:

I know what Google says and advises but I am interested in some general guidance from the people on here as I am not feeling very confident at the moment.

In your situation, I wouldn't be feeling confident - history shows that S75 claims against Airbnb against rarely succeed.
Your PayPal analogy is pretty good actually - as many people have found, using PayPal breaks the credit link between you and the seller, losing them their S75 protection.  
Your credit card company has a relationship with Airbnb, and they've provided the service they promised - which was to put you in touch with the property owner, handle the booking and process the payments.  They don't own the property and they don't have rights to rent it out, they just act as a go-between.

I suspect this loophole will be closed, eventually, and paypal/Airbnb will be told that if they wish to continue trading in Europe then they need to offer the same kind of protection that S75 does.  Of course, even if that does happen, it doesn't help you now...

eskbanker

Ergates said:
I suspect this loophole will be closed, eventually, and paypal/Airbnb will be told that if they wish to continue trading in Europe then they need to offer the same kind of protection that S75 does.

Not convinced about that myself - I was under the impression that it's the UK with s75 that's out of step, because of the historical anomaly of a piece of legislation that was enacted when credit card use was relatively rare and wasn't intended to give the widespread generic consumer insurance/protection it's become, so s75 itself is the loophole really....

Mc228

Ergates said:

happyhero said:

I know what Google says and advises but I am interested in some general guidance from the people on here as I am not feeling very confident at the moment.

In your situation, I wouldn't be feeling confident - history shows that S75 claims against Airbnb against rarely succeed.
Your PayPal analogy is pretty good actually - as many people have found, using PayPal breaks the credit link between you and the seller, losing them their S75 protection.  
Your credit card company has a relationship with Airbnb, and they've provided the service they promised - which was to put you in touch with the property owner, handle the booking and process the payments.  They don't own the property and they don't have rights to rent it out, they just act as a go-between.

I suspect this loophole will be closed, eventually, and paypal/Airbnb will be told that if they wish to continue trading in Europe then they need to offer the same kind of protection that S75 does.  Of course, even if that does happen, it doesn't help you now...

Remember that paypal DOES NOT break your section 75 if you don't log in. In that case it acts as a payment processor. I am currently winning a section 75 claim and although I didn't use paypal, this was an element of my argument, as backed up by several ombudsman decisions.

Unfortunately in the above case, I think it is unlikely based on my research as Airbnb fulfilled their contract to you. As per their terms and conditions they make clear the they only facilitate the booking, are not acting as an agent except for 'payment collection services' and you and the host are entering into a direct contract with each other. They make no guarantee in the way of quality, existence, suitability or legality of any host listings.
I am really sorry I can't give you any good news but by all means spin the wheel with the ombudsman. Although it is a long road, my complaint has taken 8 months for a provisional decision.

happyhero

Thanks guys, I will try to take it further but don't feel clever enough to pick the bones out of the T&C's. My feeling is we only bought those 2 weeks on the strength of what AIRBNB advertised and would not have done so  if we'd known how bad it was so are they able to advertise any old shack as a wonderful Mansion and take the money and get away scot-free, there must be some way this is protected against, otherwise they can do what they like and get away with it every time.

If they were a decent company they would put checks in place to insure things were really as the Owner/Landlords had said they were. Without that and talking across the World there could be chaos, both AIRBNB and the Owners could do what they like. 

This is very frustrating, I wish I was a Lawyer like Saul Goodman. 
PS
By the way I just remembered on our return home we noticed a few other bad reviews saying similar things to us but once we complained AIRBNB removed the property from their books which I think tells you a lot, like an admission of guilt, I feel it should be helpful somehow but don't know how.