Car insurance claim against me

treeroy

shaun_from_Africa said:

treeroy said:

It's perfectly reasonable to not think you need to declare anything if as far as you're concerned you have not been involved with any claim. 

It would be perfectly reasonable if any potential insurer only asked if you had been involved in any accidents that resulted in a claim but this is not all that they ask.
When applying for insurance, the wording might vary but you are specifically asked about any accidents, claims, convictions or losses and someone driving into your car is an accident, therefore it must be declared.

treeroy said:
From what I can make out, You DID make your insurer aware because you spoke to them on the phone.

Yes, they spoke to their insurer about it but only after the insurer had already been informed by the other driver or their insurers and a few weeks after the accident and if the insurers wish to refuse to cover the OP for this, they are perfectly entitled to do so just as they are perfectly entitled to add the details to the insurance database for other companies to see.

I think you have read the post wrong. He is not in trouble for not telling his insurer about the accident when it happened.
He is in trouble because he did not realise that his insurance has made a claim - and he proceeded to go ahead and purchase other insurance recently without telling them of this.

harryboy73

Dear Readers,
I am going through a very difficult time courtesy XS direct with whom I had taken out a comprehensive car insurance policy for my BMW 320 d Xdrive, 2 years ago. I was therefore wondering if anyone here could help by giving me some advice. Im sorry the story is going to be a bit long but please do read as Im in dire need of some advice.

To begin with I wasn't even aware of XS direct, as the the policy was taken through 'Insure Your Motor' who i didn't realise, was just the broker until I met with an accident this January. I was waiting at a busy cross junction to turn right at around 4:30 pm. I was first in the queue and as the  the right turn filter turned from red to amber and then green, I slowly started turning right. There was no on-coming traffic when I started moving (which I didn't expect to see anyway as they would have had the red lights on) but as I was half way through the turn and doing around 10 mph I saw a scooter speeding towards me form the corner of my eye. I slammed on the brakes and came to a complete halt and watched as the guy in the scooter frantically swerved to his left in vain to avoid me, hit my bumper on the driver side corner, loose control and fall off the scooter and skid off along with the scooter and come to a halt at the pavement some 15 yards behind and to my right. I switched off the car and ran to him to see if he was fine. He obviously was okay with no external injury. He then got up and after confirming that I was the driver started verbally abusing me and accusing me of causing the accident. I argued back that it was no fault of mine as I had right of passage as I had the filter green lights on. A pedestrian who was at the scene then came along and asked him stop arguing as she had seen him jump the red lights. However he continued to argue and I had to get back to my car as it was causing a traffic block. After parking it safely at a side road I approached the gentleman who was by now seated on his scooter (a Yamaha GPD-125 NMax with a L board) and texting on his phone. He appeared to be a courier guy with a big box attached to the back seat. He got much more verbally aggressive with me this time and I had to call the police. As I was explaining the events to the police on the phone I approached his scooter to give them his reg number. This kind of enraged him and then launched physical attack on me grabbing me by my neck. Fortunately the police was still on the phone and after listening to my distress they immediately dispatched their guys to the scene. Though he initially denied physically attacking me, there were fortunately witnesses to the attack who the police could very my story with.  They told me I could charge a case on him or opt for an apology from him and I chose the latter. However they did say that he'll be on their criminal records.  After about a couple of hours, we parted ways shaking hands and exchanging insurance details. Apart from some damage to the front of his vehicle there seemed to be no other damage (he even rode the vehicle and tried to get away from the scene before the police arrived) to the vehicle or to his person. 
As for the accident unfortunately there were no cameras at the junction and I didn't have a dash cam. In the heat of the moment it didn't occur to me to take the contact details of the lady who was witness to him jumping the red lights.

I informed Insure your motor about the incident and they took all the details and told me that Xs direct would call the following days to take all the details. Thats when I first heard of them. I told XS direct the same story I had told insure your motor the previous day. A couple of week later XS direct sent one of their investigators to my residence to take a very detailed accident report from me. He also took photographs of the damage to my car (along with a few photos I had taken) and rode with me to the accident site and took photos of the place as well. He left saying that their part of the report is done and now they have to wait for the third party's insurance company to come up with their report and if there's no conclusive evidence favouring any particular side it might end in a 50:50 shared liability for both the parties.

Following this there was no progress on the case and despite repeated calls to them, they kept telling me that they haven't yet heard from the third party. Finally on one of my calls they told me rather rudely that they have the report fro the third party and they have decided that I was guilty. I argued that it was my right of passage and that he had jumped the red lights but they kept arguing that I did not have evidence. I asked them if they had evidence that I jumped but they simply said that I had to look out for oncoming traffic even if it was a filter green light and therefore it was my mistake. Further to that conversation (which was in early March) they have now sent me a letter stating that they have settled the amount of £6463 with the third party as they are convinced it was my mistake and therefore wanted me to pay them at the earliest. 

My excess is 3000 but they said I'll have to pay the whole amount as broken one of the clauses of the cover - the accident happened when I was returning from work and my cover didn't include commute to work. That was an oversight as we had 2 cars initially, the BMW which is my wife's and a Golf which was mine. We were both insured on the BMW but I was the only driver for the Golf which was the car for commute and it was insured with Churchill ( I had to get the BMW insured by XS direct due to the high premium on it as a result of licence points on me and a claim earlier - Churchil wasn't willing to cover due to the high premium). I had sold my Golf in 2018 and we were using my wife's car for all purposes but forgot to inform the insurance guys about it.

I feel throughly cheated in many ways. First of all it wasn't my mistake at all. Unfortunately there's no evidence to prove his fault. But then there's no evidence for them to point fingers at me either. And the claim quotes damage of 3835 - I checked out the price for a brand new Yamaha GPD 125 NMax which comes to just £3174. And on top of that personal injury 2350 when he could physically assault me and then stand there and talk for another 2 hours with the police without any issues. 

I have phoned them on receipt of this letter and have expressed shock and disagreement. I have asked for complaints procedure and they have given me their complaints email ID. They said they will respond within 6 to 8 weeks of receiving the complaint and if I further disagree with them I could if I wanted take it to the financial Ombudsman.

Kindly advise
Is there any point in going ahead with the complaint and then the financial ombudsman complaint ?
Would the outcome be favourable or would I only buy time ?
Would I in the end, even if I have to settle it in whole be able to get out of their grips and get cover from another decent insurance company ?

AdrianC

harryboy73 said:

Im sorry the story is going to be a bit long but please do read as Im in dire need of some advice.

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to trim it down to the relevant stuff.

I was waiting at a busy cross junction to turn right at around 4:30 pm. I was first in the queue and as the  the right turn filter turned from red to amber and then green, I slowly started turning right. There was no on-coming traffic when I started moving ... but as I was half way through the turn ... I saw a scooter ... I slammed on the brakes and came to a complete halt and watched as the guy in the scooter frantically swerved to his left ... to avoid me, hit my bumper on the driver side corner ... A pedestrian who was at the scene then came along and asked him stop arguing as she had seen him jump the red lights.
...
As for the accident unfortunately there were no cameras at the junction and I didn't have a dash cam. In the heat of the moment it didn't occur to me to take the contact details of the lady who was witness to him jumping the red lights.

Then it's your word against theirs as to whose lights were doing what at the time.

Either way, you crossed their path whilst turning right, whether or not they should have been there.

Finally on one of my calls they told me rather rudely that they have the report fro the third party and they have decided that I was guilty. I argued that it was my right of passage and that he had jumped the red lights but they kept arguing that I did not have evidence.

No great surprises there.

My excess is 3000

Why on earth did you choose a policy with that big an excess? I had to get the BMW insured by XS direct due to the high premium on it as a result of licence points on me and a claim earlier - Churchil wasn't willing to cover due to the high premium Ah. That explains the ludicrous excess... They were the only people who would quote for the combination of a high-risk vehicle and an abysmal driving record. but they said I'll have to pay the whole amount as broken one of the clauses of the cover - the accident happened when I was returning from work and my cover didn't include commute to work. Good job the police didn't get involved, then, else you'd also be looking at a court date for driving whilst uninsured. I feel throughly cheated in many ways. First of all it wasn't my mistake at all. You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so. I have asked for complaints procedure and they have given me their complaints email ID. They said they will respond within 6 to 8 weeks of receiving the complaint and if I further disagree with them I could if I wanted take it to the financial Ombudsman.

Kindly advise
Is there any point in going ahead with the complaint and then the financial ombudsman complaint ?
Would the outcome be favourable or would I only buy time ? Honestly? No, you do not have a leg to stand on. You have been held liable for the collision. Your insurer settled the claim. You were uninsured at the time, so they've passed the bill back to you. Would I in the end, even if I have to settle it in whole be able to get out of their grips and get cover from another decent insurance company ? Given the lack of insurers willing to take you on to start with, another at-fault on your record is not going to help you one bit. At least you don't have that uninsured ban on your record, so silver linings, eh?

harryboy73

You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so.
I dont understand that Adrian C. I didnt turn right while it wasnt clear. I turned right only when the directional green arrow filter turned on indicating my right of way. And the directional green arrow filter comes on only when the oncoming traffic lights have turned red. Which means that unless his lights were red, my green wouldn't be on.

Herzlos

harryboy73 said:

You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so.
I dont understand that Adrian C. I didnt turn right while it wasnt clear. I turned right only when the directional green arrow filter turned on indicating my right of way. And the directional green arrow filter comes on only when the oncoming traffic lights have turned red. Which means that unless his lights were red, my green wouldn't be on.

Correct, but you still shouldn't have proceeded if a vehicle was still coming your way. The scooter may have jumped a red light, but you should have seen it coming and given way. The light doesn't suddenly mean you can go without observing - especially when red light jumping is pretty common.

At least you don't need to pay them the excess if you're paying for the full claim

vitaweat

Herzlos said:

harryboy73 said:

You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so.
I dont understand that Adrian C. I didnt turn right while it wasnt clear. I turned right only when the directional green arrow filter turned on indicating my right of way. And the directional green arrow filter comes on only when the oncoming traffic lights have turned red. Which means that unless his lights were red, my green wouldn't be on.

Correct, but you still shouldn't have proceeded if a vehicle was still coming your way. The scooter may have jumped a red light, but you should have seen it coming and given way. The light doesn't suddenly mean you can go without observing - especially when red light jumping is pretty common.

At least you don't need to pay them the excess if you're paying for the full claim

Or as my dear old Mum used to say, two wrongs don't make a right!

I like to put myself in the company's position:

You want insurance, great we're an insurance company.  Anything we should know?

Yeah, I have a bunch of points on my licence. 

Hmm

Oh yeah and I lied to my last insurance company about whether I'd use my car to drive to work.

Oh dear.  Anything else?

I had an accident while driving uninsured.

I wouldn't insure under those circs in a million years.  Why do people seem to think insurance fraud doesn't count as fraud?  The poster is lucky to have avoided a short stretch in prison quite frankly.

Car_54

harryboy73 said:

You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so.
I dont understand that Adrian C. I didnt turn right while it wasnt clear. I turned right only when the directional green arrow filter turned on indicating my right of way.

No, it didn't. The Highway Code says

(1) "The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance" ,and

(2) "GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear."

AdrianC

harryboy73 said:

You can't prove that. What is undeniable is that you turned right while it wasn't clear to do so.
I dont understand that Adrian C. I didnt turn right while it wasnt clear. I turned right only when the directional green arrow filter turned on indicating my right of way. And the directional green arrow filter comes on only when the oncoming traffic lights have turned red. Which means that unless his lights were red, my green wouldn't be on.

But it wasn't clear. There was another vehicle coming... The one that hit you.
If it was clear, then there wouldn't have been another vehicle there to hit you.

As far as the light goes - it's your word against his, no evidence either way. However, even if the light was green for you, you had PRIORITY, not "right of way". The difference is that you can't drive into the entirely predictable path of other vehicles then say it's their fault that they hit you...

Ultimately, it comes down to you saw the light, didn't bother looking, and just assumed. Your assumption was wrong.

The best you could hope for is 50/50 IF the point about the light was proven to be in your favour. But since it can't be, then it's on you. Especially since your insurer aren't paying, so have no incentive to fight your corner.

AdrianC

vitaweat said:
The poster is lucky to have avoided a short stretch in prison quite frankly.

For what?

A ban? Yes.
But prison? No. Not unless he was found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving. This is careless driving, at worst - and no death resulted.