Speeding fine : Calibration query

lukeyb79

Hi all,

(hope this is in the right place)

I have just had a speeding fine through and I really done think I was going that fast I remember looking at the Speedo, and I go on that road every day and see the camera van.

anyway I have looked at the certificate and the camera is only calibrated at 150m. The picture they have put online for me to be was at 350m. That’s quite a bit more than the camera is calibrated for.

so do I have any grounds to challenge this?

thanks in advance 

TooManyPoints

You could try. An approved device is assumed to be accurate unless the contrary can be proved. You will have to prove it cannot be relied upon to prove you were exceeding the speed limit and a deficiency in a calibration certificate alone will not do that. If you think you can prove the device is unreliable then defend the matter in court. Otherwise, provided you qualify, you may be better off accepting an out of court disposal (a course or fixed penalty).

Out of interest, what device was it? A device that cannot only be relied upon up to 150m would be most unusual. Have you read the calibration certificate correctly? What was the speed/limit?

AdrianC

lukeyb79 said:

so do I have any grounds to challenge this?

You can try...

But just think very carefully.

Right now, I assume you have a choice.
You can accept you did it, and have half a day of tea and biccies (and you might even learn something) for a bit under a hundred quid.
If you don't want to do that, then you can accept three points and a hundred quid, and five years of declaring it to your insurer.
...
or
...
you can deny it, have your day in court, and query the calibration certificate. If you lose (and the chances are VERY high), then you'll be looking at a much higher final bill, and perhaps more points.

How much do you know about the calibration procedure, and the legislation? Will you be hiring a specialist lawyer?

Other relevant details... How many points do you have currently, are you within two years of your first test pass, and what speed do they say you were doing?

lukeyb79

That’s really helpful advice. 

What do I know about the procedure and the law? Not much.  Is it worth the hassle of going to court and probably loosing. No

Can I prove the camera wasn’t accurate over 150m probably not. 

Seems a lot of effort for £100.

i just thought it would be as simple as they didn’t show the camera was calibrated over 150m they got me at 350m so there for null and void.

From what you guys are saying is that I’d have to prove it wasn’t accurate rather than they prove it is .

thanks for your helpful advice all  

lukeyb79

Oh I’m 40 and have a clean licence and been driving since 17. So maybe best to just take this on my chins 😜

Car_54

If you search the internet you can probably find the calibration procedure. Almost certainly it would have been complied with. The most common laser equpment is approved for use up to 999m, so it probably got you long before you spotted the van and looked at your speedo.

Anyway, if you go to court and challenge the accuracy, the prosecution will almost certainly call expert witnesses. If (when?) you lose you will have to pay their costs (four figures) over and above the fine and victim surcharge.

AdrianC

lukeyb79 said:

Seems a lot of effort for £100.

Less. Tea and biccies is usually about £85-90.

From what you guys are saying is that I’d have to prove it wasn’t accurate rather than they prove it is .

The court will take the camera evidence at face value. It's for you to introduce reasonable doubt into that - not just into whether the calibration required by the device's type approval was followed to the letter or not, but whether any divergence from the calibration affects the validity of the evidence.

If the type approval gives 150m as the calibration distance, and allows the device to be used at other distances, then nothing is going to happen.

You haven't said what speed you were doing, but a very close call (say, 31 in a 30) might introduce room for doubt based on calibration issues. But, say, 50 in a 30? Not a hope. And that's one reason why they simply don't prosecute very close to the limit - 10%+2mph is the usual starting point, so 35 in a 30.

The_Rainmaker

They have to pick a distance to calibrate their machines and I would assume they use 150m.If that is correct then it will work at all distances.

Manxman_in_exile

You say you've had a "fine through" and you want to challenge it.

Presumably then you've already received a NIP with a s172 request to identify who the driver was, and you've replied to that within the given timescale?

But if all you've received at this point is a NIP/s172 request, you must reply to it unequivocally naming the driver.   You cannot appeal against the request and if you don't reply you commit a more serious offence than speeding.  Even if you think at this stage you have a defence, you must reply naming the driver.

Johnmcl7

150m is the standard distance they use for calibrating the devices and their range is up to 1km so this wouldn't be any grounds for a defence.