Corona - Irresponsible employer or standard practice?

JReacher1

keithdc said:

nicechap said:

Forum_Name said:

We have an employee who has fallen unwell and has been advised by the doctor to self isolate. Without giving too much detail away this employee is out on the road a lot so while does come on site daily, the employee is not based on site. 

Kick start the day with management saying "they (the government) can't just come and shut the gates", as in they can't just tell us we need to stop trading for a while.

The news on this employee was (apparently) supposed to be hush-hush. I only found out through someone who works with office management as they believed i had a right to know. I was told to keep quiet. I was told the employer was really not happy the employee would be taking time off as it's going to cost them quite a lot of work.

Having known the employer for many years, i would wager a serious amount on it not being so much from the angle of trying to prevent mass hysteria but much more likely to be from the angle of "well if they find out then they'll all want time off". This is very much an old school farmer mentality with comments i've seen made that would make your blood boil as to how someone could have such little regard for another persons health/well being.

The employee seemed to do their entire days work, even though I was told in the morning they'd been advised to self isolate. 
I personally find it irresponsible as anyone in our department could've gone to this employee for a chat, to borrow a fag, touch whatever they're touching, so on & so forth. Many a comment made while this whole Coronavirus thing has been going on - it's only a sniffle, just get on with it (like i said, old school farmer mentality. Either that or silly comments to try and get laughs / be macho). 

Now the important thing is that this is not a confirmed case. It's just someone who has suddenly felt unwell and must be showing the symptoms and as a play-safe has been advised to self isolate, so nothing to get too carried away with yet.
I just think the way the employer handled it is (not surprising, but...) shocking. 

I haven't really been paying too much attention to this whole thing to be honest. Is there a procedure the employer is supposed to follow? Do you work in a place where someone has had to self-isolate and was it all hush-hush where you work or was everything out in the open and was treated seriously? Am i in the wrong to think this case should've been brought to everyone's attention as a matter of keeping everyone's health a priority? 

I think you've answered your own question.

Unless someone has a notifiable disease (e.g. measles) it sounds like a case of a selfish colleague rather than an irresponsible employer.  Do you know which of your colleagues has TB or HIV? Both are much more deadly than whatever you might be worrying about.

HIV- deadly??? Think you may have forgotten that it is 2020, not 1980. It is incredible rare to die from HIV-related illness these days!

It might be rare to die from HIV related illness but I would prefer to get Coronavirus than HIV!

JCS1

Forum_Name said:

keithdc said:

TB or HIV? Both are much more deadly than whatever you might be worrying about.

But then where do you stop with that?
Y is more deadly than X so we wont do anything about X, we'll just forget about it. Someone now has Z and Z is more deadly than Y so Y is now irrelevant and we'll just totally forget about it because Z is the highest case right now.

asajj said:

The employer should be open and honest. Everyone has a right to feel safe in the work environment.

I never thought anyone at our place would self isolate. It's now happened. I would've expected that if it happened (which it obviously now has) then the employer would use a bit of no/low risk common sense and by that i mean inform everyone that Joe Bloggs is going to self isolate, stress that that does not mean they have the virus but that they've been advised to self isolate so on that note, when they come back to base, everyone steers well clear, allows this person to go to their car & leave, nobody approaches the individual (as in my view yes it's probably just a normal bug they have but it's not worth the risk for the sake of informing and steering clear).

JCS1 said:

Old School Farmer mentality?  Can you expand on this, as the daughter of a farmer I'm not sure if to be offended or not!  

Well you'll probably be offended by the sounds of it.
From personal experience, and this clearly does not include your father as i've never met the guy, all the farmers i've ever dealt with (and i've dealt with many in my line of work actually) have a keep working until you drop dead attitude. Have the flu? No such thing, it's just a runny nose, 'man up and carry on'. Leg is broken? So what, you have another, carry on. Cut yourself open? Don't be soft. Who needs stitches or any wound cleaning out. Infection is nonsense, just put an old rag around it and it'll be ok.

I've dealt with many old farmers over the years. This viewpoint is frustrating but seems to be one that they all share, or at least the ones i've dealt with. Your father may well be different but since it seems to be a common theme amongst old farmers in my experience then that's why i said old school farmer mentality, because that's the mentality i've seen ... in my experience. I can't comment on your father just like nobody else can comment on those i've encountered to form the basis of my opinion. 

I never said it was my father who was the farmer.

nicechap

keithdc said

Very important data..... but almost all HIV deaths are in developing countries. 
As we were discussing the OP's situation and the OP is more likely to be writing from Margate than Mogadishu, this chart is pretty irrelevant.

Again incorrect, please feel free to provide the UK data if you think that's more relevant.  HIV no longer kills within a few months - even in "developing" countries (has the UK stopped developing?), it's a life long condition like diabetes but people still die of it, including in the UK, just 30 or 40 years later. HIV was raised as an example, because the OP believed they were entitled to know colleagues health conditions which he is not. The graphic was to counter another incorrect assertion about HIV not being a killer.  

If he wants to change the law he needs to lobby his MP rather than trying to whip up a mob with pitchforks to go after his farmer boss. And realise he is as likely to pass on infections as his colleagues.

[Deleted User]

bartelbe said:

This is why the government response is not going to work. The UK is full of bad employers who will punish employees for taking precautions if they feel sick and could potentially have the virus. 

There needs to be an emergency change in employment law to protect employees during this crisis.

You could turn this on it's head and say the UK is full of bad employees who will punish employers by taking time off "sick" when there is nothing wrong with them, but expect to get paid or a hand out by tax payers. 

Forum_Name

JohnDorian said:

Sounds like a bunch of office gossips getting worked up about the rumours they spread and trying to get someone else in trouble. 

Why does everyone assume everyone else works in an office?
Not everyone on this Earth is an office worker.

JCS1 said:

I never said it was my father who was the farmer.

Whatever the sex of your parent it makes absolutely zero difference to what i said. Whatever floats your boat though.

[size=1]NOTE: Please don't reply to tell me you don't have a boat. lol.[/size]

camelot1971 said:

You could turn this on it's head and say the UK is full of bad employees who will punish employers by taking time off "sick" when there is nothing wrong with them, but expect to get paid or a hand out by tax payers. 

You could actually turn lots of things on their head. Lots of people actually do turn things on their head all day long as they try and point score, twist and turn in a bid to get the upper hand in some kind of discussion and be the one to hold 'the ultimate point' and 'win'

Rather than just sticking to the matter at hand and not getting carried away.

jonathanc8888

I am getting the impression that the company is trying to protect the privacy of the employee, especially considering that it's not a confirmed case. If you have symptoms and are told to self isolate are you happy to have your details fully disclosed?

suki1964

jonathanc8888 said:

I am getting the impression that the company is trying to protect the privacy of the employee, especially considering that it's not a confirmed case. If you have symptoms and are told to self isolate are you happy to have your details fully disclosed?

Precisely what I said way back when but the OP seems to like the sound of his own voice and likes to think he knows all the answers already and will argue the sky is pink

No offence Op, but seriously , whatever anyone is off work for has absolutely nothing to do with you or co workers

Forum_Name

suki1964 said:

Precisely what I said way back when but the OP seems to like the sound of his own voice and likes to think he knows all the answers already and will argue the sky is pink

No offence Op, but seriously , whatever anyone is off work for has absolutely nothing to do with you or co workers

Have you listened to yourself? Seriously, we're not talking about itchy nether regions here or some stinky discharge. If we were then i'd be in 100% agreement with you except we're not. We're talking about a case that is spreading all over the world and every day the death count increases.

"But flu kills more people", yes but that's just avoiding the issue and the plague killed many also so should we disregard everything underneath that?

I'm not going to catch a case of the itchy balls from you but i could very well catch this coronavirus from you if the attitude is all hush-hush and i come up to you and ask you for a smoke and sit next to you as i have a chat with you for 30mins and then shake your hand and say see you later. Go home and then infect those i live with. So i'm afraid if there's a chance you have this virus then it does become my business. Forget about the incubation period. If you're showing no symptoms you can only do your best but if you do start showing symptoms then that highlights yourself as someone specific to steer clear from.

So 2 scenarios. Sure i imagine you'll want to paint a 3rd one to sidestep this but we'll stick to the 2 scenarios:

1) We stay all hush hush. Unwell person who's been advised by a medical professional to self isolate decides to instead continue their days work. They get back to base where co-workers approach the infected .... hi how you doing, hows your day been, let's have a long chat, can i borrow a smoke? Pat on the back, shake of the hand, see you tomorrow.

x-days later, oh crap, i've got this virus. Wonder where i got that from. If only i knew.

2) Employer tells workforce that Joe Bloggs is unwell, will be coming back to base, nobody is to worry as Joe doesn't necessarily have it, he just feels unwell and the advice is to go home. Everyone steer clear, don't approach, let Joe get in his car and leave. 

Chances are Joe doesn't have the virus and he just feels unwell but do we really want to be taking chances? If you were given 100 skittles and told 3 would kill you, would you eat any? I know i wouldn't. 

In my opinion scenario 2 would be by far the most common sense option. Clearly we will not disagree on this and you feel it is much more appropriate for people to stay quiet about potentially having this virus and then going and infecting others in the process. 

nicechap

Precisely what I said way back when but the OP seems to like the sound of his own voice and likes to think he knows all the answers already and will argue the sky is pink

No offence Op, but seriously , whatever anyone is off work for has absolutely nothing to do with you or co workers

Your point has been ably made for you.