Budgeting Advance

MC24

calcotti said:

tomtom256 said:

This is what the DWP use, https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/other-financial-support

CAB seem to be linking the budgeting loan criteria - https://www.gov.uk/budgeting-help-benefits

Curious that the House of Commons deposited paper http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/4._Advances_-_Budgeting_Advances_v5.0.pdf
http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0465/Advances-_Budgeting_Advances_v2.0.pdf says

Budgeting Advances

Budgeting Advances provide valuable access to interest free payments for one- off items. They are designed to help claimants with irregular expenses, for example:

• obtaining or retaining employment such as work clothes, tools, travelling expenses and childcare costs
• buying essential household items such as furniture, cot, pram, appliances, clothing and footwear
• help with rent in advance or removal expenses to secure new accommodation
• improvement, maintenance and security of their home
• Funeral expenses

They are not intended to help pay for unexpectedly high household bills, for example – an electricity or gas bill.

which is somewhat more extensive than the link you have provided https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/other-financial-support

1. Budgeting Advance
   You might be able to get a Budgeting Advance to help with:

   • emergency household costs such as replacing a broken cooker

   • getting a job or staying in work

   • funeral costs

Hope DWP are not trying to mislead our MPs!

The house of commons document is really interesting, how recent is it? The thing is, on the last call, i mentioned to the advisor  that on the CAB website it says you can get the advance for furniture and clothes - they replied with "doesnt meet our criteria" according to the criteria they have on their screen in front of them - surely the criteria they have is the same as the house of commons document, therefore i am eligible? . Im going to direct them to this document on my journal so they cant avoid it and ask for a explanation. It seems like the advisor can decide according to their discretion if anyone qualifies which blurs the situation and i think that is what is happening here

Thanks alot for that link! missed it first time aound

MC24

Allfather said:

Advances in general, and this is especially the case with post-6 month Budgeting Advances, are discretionary. They can be refused on any reasonable grounds, and whilst you can ask for this to be reconsidered, you have no formal right to appeal and this is different to a Mandatory Reconsideration (essentially you would be asking the person who refused your Advance, or another member of staff, to take another look at the request).

As an example, there is nothing that I have found either on GOV.UK or in legislation that states you can't take out another Advance payment when you have requested your existing Advance(s) to be deferred, however the overwhelming majority of UC staff will refuse further Advances in these circumstances on the grounds of affordability, since you've essentially said you can't afford to repay your existing debt but are asking to take on more.

Correct if me I'm wrong, but I suspect the order of your conversation had a lot to do with the refusal. As you rightly said, people are constantly trying to abuse the system and take out Advances where they don't meet the criteria - if you were first refused the money for furniture on the basis that you do not have your own property, and pay board & lodge to your parents, meaning it should be their responsibility to replace the bed (you still haven't really explained why this shouldn't be the case in any of your replies), and then suddenly said that actually you needed it for clothing, they probably thought you were just trying to get round the original refusal, get the money, then use it to buy a bed anyway.

I would probably contact them again, not mention the bed, and explain why you need it for clothing. They have every right ask you questions about this (especially if they notice the note about the previous refusal) so be prepared for that; if you say that you need to buy 2 pairs of trousers and a few pairs of socks then ask for the full £348 available, that's obviously going to look a bit suss given your previous interaction with them.

I think you have hit a few important points -  the discretion of the advisor seems to have played a big role in why i was denied the advance more then the fact that it seems that i am eligible according to DWP documents, which is frustrating because their discretion is based on assumptions and limited knowledge of my circumstances - which then denies people who really need it, leaving them to struggle mentally, emotionally and psychically in many circumstances. It makes no sense why it isn't straightforward - what i asked for is on the eligibility criteria - therefore i should qualify and unless they have obvious red flags - they should not deny it. If they doubted people, ask for a receipt - i would have no problem providing it, rather then denying the possibility all together.

It is also a possibility that i was declined as i asked the advance for 2 different things. I basically worded it along the lines of this - i said i need it for a few different items - 1 being a bed and that i also need to buy clothes - so i didnt go from one thing to another - i said them both together but i think being direct and specific and only mentioning 1 item is important as they may perceive it as me listing out all i can think of and denying it solely on that basis.

As for my parents replacing my bed, i am expected to buy my own furniture, goods and food. I dont know how it works in terms or landlords or my parents responsibility to buy me the bed, however that can be looked into if the route of a advance does not work out, as i feel i am eligible for the advance and rather buy it myself then put that responsibility on my parents

I will contact them again, through my journal and point out their house of commons document and apply again but only for clothing rather then a bed and see how it goes. Hopefully it works out this time!

Thank you

tomtom256

Don't forget the national telephony agents have a script and limited training.

Have you discussed with your work coach if you have and have you tried calling during the normal working day from the number held on your claim as this should get you through to your actual case manager or their team who will be able to better advise you.

calcotti

MC24 said: The house of commons document is really interesting, how recent is it? 

Irritatingly they don't put dates on them but this is the latest one
http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/4._Advances_-_Budgeting_Advances_v5.0.pdf
(Sorry, when you quoted me I was obviosuly editing which is why there are two versions of the document referenced!).

calcotti

Allfather said: As an example, there is nothing that I have found either on GOV.UK or in legislation that states you can't take out another Advance payment when you have requested your existing Advance(s) to be deferred, 

That isn't correct.
See http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/4._Advances_-_Budgeting_Advances_v5.0.pdf

Eligibility criteria

To be eligible for a Budgeting Advance, the claimant must not have any repayment of a Budgeting Advance outstanding. 

MC24

tomtom256 said:

Don't forget the national telephony agents have a script and limited training.

Have you discussed with your work coach if you have and have you tried calling during the normal working day from the number held on your claim as this should get you through to your actual case manager or their team who will be able to better advise you.

It defiantly sounded scripted when i spoke to them on the phone. The lines are blurred when it comes to discretionary - and i think thats where the problem lies more then anything else as all documents point toward my reason being eligble. They will at all costs not reveal whats on their screen and criteria and they give no advice whatsoever and just say its out of their hands - i tend to disagree because i now clearly remember - he said it was his choice and discretion and that he wont change change his decision.

I went to my work coach the same day after this happened and he said they dont have the ability to apply for a budgeting advance from their side and i would have to do it by calling or writing on my journal. I will retry on Monday and update this page to help anyone in the future. Thanks

EDIT - instead of making a new post and bumping up the thread - i edited this post. I know its been a long time since i opened this thread but i thought updating it would be beneficial to people in the future. So while i was not able to claim a loan for the bed, i had other items that needed replacing - namely a washing machine - i was able to claim the loan for a washing machine - so basically a white good. White goods such as refrigerators, washing machines are valid reasons.

MC24

calcotti said:

MC24 said: The house of commons document is really interesting, how recent is it? 

Irritatingly they don't put dates on them but this is the latest one
http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/4._Advances_-_Budgeting_Advances_v5.0.pdf
(Sorry, when you quoted me I was obviosuly editing which is why there are two versions of the document referenced!).

No worries, thanks again for bringing this to my attention. Hopefully it can help out many others in the same/similar circumstances in the future too

fizzy123

Couple of years ago you could get budget loan for new clothes etc but now you can't, it has to be either for a job or household costs with proof if the item is broken and  funeral costs. 

poppy12345

fizzy123 said:

Couple of years ago you could get budget loan for new clothes etc but now you can't, it has to be either for a job or household costs with proof if the item is broken and  funeral costs. 

Not true, for a budgeting loan. I had one just a few months ago. I applied online, which is much quicker and they don't even ask you what it's for when applying online.

If applying with through paper form then they ask you what it's for but they never ask for proof, if you're replacing household items because they are broken. This thread is for budgeting advances, which is part of Universal Credit and they are slightly different rules for those.