Online retailer refusing to refund a returned item - advice please

Wdrags

Hi

I recently purchased a table saw online. When delivered by the courier it was left outside in the rain, at the back of my house with no signature. On arrival having removed the outer plastic wrap I realized that I had ordered the wrong model, as it was written on the box.

We called the company to arrange for a replacement within 14 days,  they said that they can only offer a refund and we needed to return the saw in its original packaging at our own cost. I arranged for a courier to return the saw back to them.

When the saw reached them they said that the product box was damaged due to tape marks and having been handles by the courier and that they couldnt refund us on that basis. At which point I was directed us to terms and conditions stating that the original packaging must be undamaged for them to process the refund as the box had marks where it has been handled by the courier.

When I realized wanted to return the item and made contact the the company over the phone, and at no point was a returns/cancellation form issued or reminded that the box needs to be in good condition on arrival . I just was told to return the item in the box with the original order number attached.

It cost £60 to return the item, and given the expense of it I would have had no problem adding extra protection to ensure that it could be refunded, had I be told when I spoke to the company directly.

Is the retailer within their right to refuse a refund? They are effectively saying that the saw has no value due to the damage to the outer box, despite the fact that it hasnt even been opened.

What would anyone advise as the next step.

Thanks

neilmcl

They can't refuse a refund but they can deduct an amount if the value has been reduced as a result of handling the goods more than was necessary and this would include damage to the original packaging. If the package came with an outer protective plastic cover then why didn't you take the same care when you sent it back.

mattyprice4004

I would ask them for pictures to see how bad it is. 
As above, they can make a deduction; would you be happy receiving the item with the box in poor condition? 
Usually these products are packaged in China / wherever and thus the retailer won't have spare boxes; it'd have to be sold as a clearance item so I'd expect a deduction. 

neilmcl

Also, was this a purchase for your work/business?

Wdrags

Thanks for the replies.
It was a purchase as a consumer and not for work/business. 
I can understand if they would be making a deduction for the condition of the box, but they are refusing any refund, and say they either they will dispose of it or I would need to arrange to get it back.
The plastic packaging was half removed, so I taped it up around the box. But I guess during transit the tape must have come off, and stripped some of the front of the colouring of the box. I have attached photos.

wesleyad

Did you book the courier yourself? How on earth did it cost £60? Was it the weight?  You can see why the company aren't happy, but I'd say you might have recourse against the courier for clearly not taking due care.

Although as always with these scammers they probably have the get out of any liability card "you didn't pay for extra insurance therefore we can do what we want with your package and apparently that's fine"

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

neilmcl said:

They can't refuse a refund but they can deduct an amount if the value has been reduced as a result of handling the goods more than was necessary and this would include damage to the original packaging. If the package came with an outer protective plastic cover then why didn't you take the same care when you sent it back.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

Their terms fail to advise correctly regarding the right to cancel and thus my interpretation is they don't have any right to reduce the refund.

OP who is the retailer?

Wdrags

I booked the courier myself, it was a bulky package and weighed approx 25kg . I took out insurance with the courier as it had a value of £450, and didnt want to take any chances.
I can completely understand if they want to reduce the refund value, after all the box is damaged. The item itself is untouched, and would still hold its value. 
The retailer was mytoolshed

neilmcl

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

neilmcl said:

They can't refuse a refund but they can deduct an amount if the value has been reduced as a result of handling the goods more than was necessary and this would include damage to the original packaging. If the package came with an outer protective plastic cover then why didn't you take the same care when you sent it back.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

Their terms fail to advise correctly regarding the right to cancel and thus my interpretation is they don't have any right to reduce the refund.

OP who is the retailer?

Are you in possession of crystal ball! How do you know what their terms fail to state if you don't know who the retailer is.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

neilmcl said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

neilmcl said:

They can't refuse a refund but they can deduct an amount if the value has been reduced as a result of handling the goods more than was necessary and this would include damage to the original packaging. If the package came with an outer protective plastic cover then why didn't you take the same care when you sent it back.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

Their terms fail to advise correctly regarding the right to cancel and thus my interpretation is they don't have any right to reduce the refund.

OP who is the retailer?

Are you in possession of crystal ball! How do you know what their terms fail to state if you don't know who the retailer is.

I can only give advice taking the OP at their word:

 At which point I was directed us to terms and conditions stating that the original packaging must be undamaged for them to process the refund 

which is not in accordance with regulations 27 to 38. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Wdrags said:

The retailer was mytoolshed

15.6 In addition to our returns policy you have a statutory right to a "cooling off" period. This period begins once your order is complete and ends 7 days after the Goods have been delivered.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/30/made

(3) If the contract is a sales contract and none of paragraphs (4) to (6) applies, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

To cancel your contract, you must notify us in writing either by post or email within the 7 day Cooling-Off Period then return the Goods to My Tool Shed within 7 days of receipt.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35/made
(4) The consumer must send off the goods under paragraph (2)(a), or hand them over under paragraph (2)(b), without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the day on which the consumer informs the trader as required by regulation 32(2).

Goods can only be returned for this reason if their packaging remains unopened and the Goods can be re-sold as new, without any additional work on the part of My Tool Shed.
You are responsible for paying return shipment costs. If tape is used directly on the Goods or anything is written directly on the Goods this is then classed as a used item, therefore we cannot refund unless the item is proven to be faulty.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made

(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.

(10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—

(a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);

(b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.

(11) Paragraph (9) does not apply if the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

Basically their 7 day cooling off period and 7 day return period along with refusal to process any kind of refund if they are not happy with the condition to my view means they have not provided you with the information in paragraph (l) and they certainly have no right to refuse to any refund nor do they have the right to reduce the amount either as far as I can see. 

Letter before action and small claims is the usual advice.

It's worth a kind note that if the company could provide anything to demonstrate the transaction had been made via a business the above doesn't apply as far as I know.