Scary letter from PRA after I rejected blurred CCA agreement, please help

Dunover51

I'm trying hard to stay upbeat with this CCA thing but flipping heck it's hard! I received a blurred copy of my CCA from PRA and a new set of terms and conditions, you can mostly read my writing on the CCA but all the print is unreadable. I was advised here and on legalbeagles to reject it so  I did. They sent a letter to say they were looking for a better copy and that the debt was unenforceable until they found it and they would cease all collections of the debt. Then a couple of weeks later I got sent the exact same blurred copy by them, so I sent another letter saying it was too blurred to read etc. Nothing happened and I have now stopped my direct debit to Stepchange which was due this week,and today I received the following letter:

'We have requested a further copy of your credit agreement from MBNA however they advised us that they do not hold any alternative copies on record. We understand from your original request that you have concerns about the enforceability of the debt. As the doocumentation requested has been supplied along with terms and conditions of the agreement we must advise that this account remains enforceable.'

Please help, as far as I know the CCA agreement needs to be completely readable, all of it not just half of it. Can anyone tell me what I should do next, I think this is some sort of tactic but I am not 100% sure so need some advice from you guys please.

sourcrates

That is there opinion, you have your own opinion, you are at an impasse, which only a court can decide.

So, unless a claim form arrives on your doormat, forget about it.
You are correct, as i have already told you, a copy agreement must be legible, they take you to court, you show that to the judge, case dismissed.

They are messing with your head and you are letting them in, you don`t need do anything else, if they take you to court, you now have a defense.

Relax.

John_

Is it actually your debt? If you did borrow the money then it’s an awfully big gamble to hope that a judge or magistrate decides to write it off because the paperwork is not pristine.
What’s your reason for not wanting to repay?

tacpot12

I had the same thought as John_ 
While I do think you will win just on the fact that the agreement is only partially legible, it would be as well to prepare a proper defence in case you get unlucky. 

monetxchange

John_ said:

Is it actually your debt? If you did borrow the money then it’s an awfully big gamble to hope that a judge or magistrate decides to write it off because the paperwork is not pristine.
What’s your reason for not wanting to repay?

Reading the OP's previous posts, they spent over nine years in a DMP trying to gradually pay off all debts, so I don't think it's an elaborate ruse to get out of paying one thing. Sounds like this debt dates back nearly 25 years too.

Whatever moral thoughts people may have, the law is on your side here. If they can't produce an legible copy, they don't have a case. No luck about it. 

Willing2Learn

John_ said:

If you did borrow the money then it’s an awfully big gamble to hope that a judge or magistrate decides to write it off because the paperwork is not pristine.

The account would not be written off if the paperwork was not easily legible.  Whilst the account would become unenforceable, the debtor would still be liable.


@Dunover51
The guidance states:  "Legibility of any copy
2.29 Any copy must be easily legible, as must any copy of notices of variation or statement of the terms of the agreement as varied"

So don't worry.  As sourcrates says, if you show the illegible paperwork to a judge, then the case would be dismissed.

Dunover51

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments it is all appreciated. I also appreciate the comments regarding the debt, I have endured nearly 19 years of trying to get back on my feet after a dire relationship break up leaving me many thousands of pounds  in debt and ultimately ended in my becoming homeless and basically loosing the small amount of belongings I had managed to hold on to, I've worked multiple low paid jobs at the same time which just trapped me further in this awful situation. I have never claimed benefits excpet for two months when I broke my leg which again put my financial situation back even further forcing  me to work  before I was physically ready. I am 51yrs old and have no penison, no house of my own and only 15yrs to try and catch up something for my old age, it is a hopeless situation but I am trying my very best to get back on my feet, I can't work out why I haven't given up and jumped off a bridge. Eventually nine years ago I was advised to go bankrupt but I felt it was my debt and I should pay, I have paid the original debt many times over if you count interest before I went on a DMP. 

Anyway I did some research and  found some interesting things, I need to go back and make note of the details but basically I signed up to MBNA after a mailshot in 1998. It seems that this was a campaign from MBNA where not many things were adhered to such as providing terms and conditions etc. Stretching my memory back that far I can remember applying for the card and it simply arriving in the post some time later. I do not remember any terms and conditions etc. However this point makes me need to ask, what is a reconstituted set of terms and conditions? Is it a new printed out set f A4 papers? Because this is what I was sent with the first burred CCA copy. If someone could clear that up for I would be very grateful.

Another question is advice  regarding my response to PRA, should I write back and state that I beleive the CCA is unenforceable due to it being ilegible and should I state the legal cases  that PRA have lost where this is the case.

The debt is for 2759 and there is 6yrs left on my DMP. ALso the date hand signed on the CCA agreement by MBNA is just 10/12/'9' and the date signed by me is 02/12/98. 
The terms and conditions are on pain paper, no and there is no date on the terms and conditions but there is a sort of code at the bottom of each page which says MB 04/97 there is no actual date anywhere on any page.There are also no interest rates at all on the terms and conditions anywhere. 

Suseka97

I think you need to refer back to sourcrates, monetexchange and W2Ls comments and advice and just file this away. Stop over thinking this and putting doubts in your head. You've also had advice from legalbeagles to reject what's been sent. The law is on your side, clearly - and so I'd sit back and wait to see what happens next (if anything does).  

Of course it doesn't mean the debt is not still owed - so PRA are entitled to send statements to remind you of that - but they are not allowed to harrass or pursue.  If they were to initiate any sort of court action - you have your defence ready.  If you are looking for more advice from a legal standpoint - I suggest posting the question up on the All About Debt forum.  There is a dedicated UE section and mods who can provide you with a template response in these situations.

Dunover51

Thank you Suseka97 so you think I should just ignore the letter? Im happy to do that but I would rather try and wrangle an admission from them that it is unenforeceable, today they sent a statement so I guess all of this is tactics to wear me down. And youre right, I am overthinking all of this!

sourcrates

Dunover51 said:

Thank you Suseka97 so you think I should just ignore the letter? Im happy to do that but I would rather try and wrangle an admission from them that it is unenforeceable, today they sent a statement so I guess all of this is tactics to wear me down. And youre right, I am overthinking all of this!

You won`t get that admission.

PRA Group are in the business of making money, from the debts they buy, they want fast turnarounds, quick and easy returns on there investments, they are not interested in side shows such as this, and its very likely they will ignore you, as i said before, only a court can rule on this one way or another, otherwise its just speculation/opinion on both sides.

Just continue on with your life as though this issue did not exist, it does not matter what they send you in the post, or what they may say or do, the only thing you need to be aware of is a court claim, so until or unless that happens, you should ignore them.

5cedc3ce38

What has the potential disappearance of the default to do with the likelihood of the creditor accepting your F&F offer or not?