Phoning Patients In Hospital

santana-mx3

When my father was taken into hospital last year, I got Patientline's recorded messages calling me to tell me I could call him on their special number. He then phoned me to tell me that there were a number of Patientline "sales" people hassling (very politely, as if to be helpful) the patients to give details of people they would like to be able to contact them. They were quite disappointed he only suggested me and told him there must be other people! He called me quickly to warn me how expensive it would be to phone so not to do it unnecessarily. To be fair, the patientline recorded message did mention the cost.

I think the cost is shocking. I used 1899 which worked, without making me listen to any spiel but that seems to have been changed now according to other comments on this thread such that people need to use the 0808 access no. for 1899 and have to listen to 1min of spiel.

At the time, I looked on another message board and found people to be generally in favour of the system, saying that patients shouldn't be bothered in hospital anyway. I think that's a nonsensical argument. If that were the case, those not wanting to be bothered could just say they don't want the system, or it should be possible to set them for Do Not Disturb, instead of ripping off callers (and indeed the patients when they try to dial out).

I noticed that Patientline's website at the time (and presumably now) had a FAQ section and for people whose telecom provider could not connect them to 070 numbers, their response was something like: tell your provider to start allowing calls to these numbers. Ver helpful...not.

bunking_off

bbb_uk wrote:

Not sure. You could ask them anyhow. I know that PatientLine installed all their TVs, etc with no cost to the hospitals (see here) therefore I'm guessing that must have costs a substantial amount of money.

I actually wonder if they (PatientLine) are actually making any profit yet?

What I don't agree with is using an 07x personal number but at premium rate prices (49ppm peaktime) and yet they still keep you on hold for a minute or two. I've never had to ring them yet but does anyone exactly what crap they tell you over the phone whilst keeping you on hold. The reason being is surely that has to be some rule against that and OfCOM should investigate?

Patientline are classified as a "Provider of Electronic Communications Service (PECS)", which is regulatory speak for they're a telecoms company. As such, because they don't pay a 3rd party - keep the money themselves to recoup their investment - they don't breach the 070 rules.

Keeping callers on hold for a minute while playing adverts at 49ppm is well dodgy though.

In their (moderate) defence, though, an insider once told me that the units cost approx £2-2.5k installed. Multiply that by the number of beds in a typical hospital and you get the picture on the outlay they've had to make. Doubt all those 40-odd p retentions have paid for that expenditure yet....

Woby_Tide

bunking_off wrote:

In their (moderate) defence, though, an insider once told me that the units cost approx £2-2.5k installed. Multiply that by the number of beds in a typical hospital and you get the picture on the outlay they've had to make. Doubt all those 40-odd p retentions have paid for that expenditure yet....

But their £3.50 a day TV charges and their cunning way to make cards from different hospitals unable to work in the next nearest one if you have to transfer so you pay twice helps them recoup their losses. Poor lambs....not

bunking_off

Woby_Tide wrote:

But their £3.50 a day TV charges and their cunning way to make cards from different hospitals unable to work in the next nearest one if you have to transfer so you pay twice helps them recoup their losses. Poor lambs....not

Well again, not defending them in the slightest, but given this is a moneysaving website...I would say funding a Patientline account via the prepay cards is a mug's game. They take credit cards...just charge it up with the amount you'll actually need (really winds them up when it's small amounts but who cares?), and doing it this way your account stays live after you leave hospital so if there's any credit left you can draw down on it if you're subsequently admitted again. However, as far as I know they won't let you move any outstanding credit back onto your card, hence charge it up in small amounts....

dag_2

Does anyone know if the Hospitals get a share of the revenue from the calls to patient line numbers.(49p a min peak,39p offpeak.) Because i thought revenue sharing on personal numbers had been banned by Ofcom.

I can't remember where I read this, so don't take it as gospel truth, but ....

Apparently Patientline were given exclusive right to install TV and telephone systems in hospitals for 15 years, some time in the late 90's.

Patientline is not charging the NHS for any installation or maintenance of phones or TV's - Patientline bear those costs itself.

The reason it's 15 years is because Patientline said that's how long it might take for them to recover those installation costs, and have a realistic chance of making a profit. So far, Patientline have not made a profit on running hospital phone systems.

The NHS never intended Patientline to replace existing systems. So TV's in communal day-rooms will stay, and Patientline are not allowed to remove them.

Hospitals do not get any direct revenue from Patientline. The only way that hospitals have benefitted is that Patientline has arguably saved them money on paying for their own phone installation. The argument is that if Patientline had to pay a cut of revenue back to the hospital, then it would take even longer than 15 years to make a profit - or maybe they would never make a profit - so there would have been no incentive to have bothered installing the TV and phone systems in the first place.

The NHS is legally unable to force Patientline to pay a cut in revenue, or change the terms in any other way, until the 15 years is up.

Here's my opinion on all this: although Patientline might not have made a profit yet, that doesn't mean you should feel bad about it. I still think it's a rip-off.

Also, if it's too expensive for hospital inpatients to stay in contact with their friends and relatives, then the more vulnerable patients will lose touch and become institutionalised. Hospitals won't be able to rely on the patient's relatives to look after the patient, so they'll have to arrange carers before discharging them. As a result, it will take much longer to discharge vulnerable patients. The state ends up having to look after people who might otherwise be looked after within the family, and it costs much more for the tax-payer in the long run.

That said, moving phones on a trolley around from patient to patient obviously carries a risk of passing infection from one patient to another. This might have been acceptable in the past, before the current media obsession with MRSA - but it clearly won't do now.

If Patientline are smart, they could play the MRSA trump card to justify their costs, and therefore extortionately high charges, and keep things the way they are now. That would be bad news for consumers.

My point is, I think that the NHS trying to save money today, by cutting corners on phone system, will cost more in the long run. So I think there's a case to be made for centrally-allocated funds from government, specifically earmarked for telephone systems, and more generally for helping inpatients stay in touch with friends and relatives.

Woby_Tide

bunking_off wrote:

Well again, not defending them in the slightest, but given this is a moneysaving website...I would say funding a Patientline account via the prepay cards is a mug's game. They take credit cards...just charge it up with the amount you'll actually need (really winds them up when it's small amounts but who cares?), and doing it this way your account stays live after you leave hospital so if there's any credit left you can draw down on it if you're subsequently admitted again. However, as far as I know they won't let you move any outstanding credit back onto your card, hence charge it up in small amounts....

I learnt that trick shortly afterwards, I was a little frazzled after having 2 hours sleep when I got back to the maternity ward the morning after, paid £3.50 for the days card, then got told we had to switch hospitals a couple of hours later, took the card with us and it didn't work, swines.

pricefighter

In this day and age people have a right to be able to contact there friends/relatives in Hospital.The cost of accessing these calls should be taken into consideration.Not only does this make sure that people on low income can afford to use them,it also encourages people to call by removing the cost barrier.Which in turn normally benefits the patient.

Patientline offer amongst other things to manage the Hospitals PAYPHONES/CALLBOXES offering GENEROUS COMMISSION to the Hospital for doing so.

crunchy_with_ketchup

Not all hospitals use Patientline. Medway Maritime has a similar system, but the calls are (slightly) cheaper *and* work on 18866.com (@20p/min all day). Unfortunately my Father has just been transferred to St Thomas's, making visiting diificult for my disabled mum, and hence making the phone more important.

I don't object to paying inflated prices, beacuse I realise they have to recoup the investment cost, but 49p per minute is crazy. IMO people would actually be prepared to use the thing a lot more if the calls were 10-20p/minute, giving people a better deal, and still leaving patientline a hefty income stream.

If the unit cost of installing them is too high, then surely they should put up the cost of TV, add more facilities you can pay a premium for etc. rather than rip people off for the phone part (after all, a phone only system would be much cheaper to install)

Phonix

This is totally sick.

Say your relative is about to die and you are forced to pay extortionate charges to ring them.

Currently I'm faced with this situation. Yes I will try to use 1899 to pay 15p/min but why should I even have to pay 15p/min if it costs 2p/call to ring the hospital.

Someone must be profiting heavily from this. A very sick way to make a profit.

Please contact your local MP, as will I.

[edit] Ok I've read the thing about installation costs but who's stupid idea was that anyway?!!

Surely one of the most important things in hospital is to be able to speak to your relatives because (oh SURPRISE) you might be on the brink of death, not to be able to watch TV convieniently.

Most buildings have phone systems in place, why is a hospital much different? Yes there are lots of people but it's just an investment the NHS should have beared in the first place, not got it for 'free' in exchange for huge phone charges for the 15 years following.

skdotcom

My wife was in hospital for a couple of weeks, and I used to phone her from work. Didnt cost me a penny!