Help needed with electrical advice

crispo99

Hi,
I need some advice, my elderly father in law lost power, and i'm not sure the electrician he's got round knows what he's doing.  
House is in Sussex, was rewired with new consumer unit 18yrs ago
He woke up to find the RCD had been tripped, and wouldn't stay on
One upstairs lighting circuit has possibly been damaged by rodents, waiting until i can visit to check in the loft
Electrician spent 7 hours (£150 total charge)  so far and has:

• disconnected the lighting circuit (removed the wires from the fuse).  Unclear why he had to remove them instead of switching the fuse off
• confirmed all the fuses in the CU are working properly
• said that the fault is a short in the kitchen socket ring main and has disconnected this ring main (again, removed the wires from the fuse)

He then said that to identify where the short is could be "a lengthy investigation".  Surely its just testing/replacing each socket on the kitchen ring main, as unlikely to be the wiring?

What makes me suspicious is that he was there for 7hours, apparently kept looking at youtube videos and when i spoke to him about replacing the CU for a new one he said the one i was going to buy (https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-general-19-module-10-way-populated-high-integrity-dual-rcd-consumer-unit/3150g) doesn't comply with regs as it doesn't have a built in surge protector, and he quoted £475 to supply and fit one(!)
From what i can see online having a SPD in a domestic house is recommended but not essential, is that right?
Not sure if this guy is taking the p**s or just newly qualified and doesn't know his !!!!!! from elbow.  Would be grateful for any advice thanks

 

FreeBear

crispo99 said: Not sure if this guy is taking the p**s or just newly qualified and doesn't know his !!!!!! from elbow.  Would be grateful for any advice thanks

First step, find which circuit is causing the RCD to trip - If it is in the kitchen, look for a faulty appliance (kettle, fridge, freezer would be suspect). No faulty appliances, test that there is no leakage between the neutral line & earth - If that is OK, replace the RCD.

If it is the lighting circuit at fault, isolate and then go hunting for the source of the problem. With the right equipment, shouldn't take more than an hour to find the faulty circuit (including tea break). Finding a dodgy wire might take a little longer depending on access.

By the sounds of it, your assessment of this "electrician" is correct. Taking the proverbial and not knowing A from E.

[Deleted User]

An electrician has spent 7 hours working on what appears to be at least two problems, and has charged you in total £150 for the work.  You appear to be annoyed about this cost, and then the potential future cost of a CU replacement.  Can I ask how much you would expect an electrician to charge per hour?  

Removing the wires from the protective device isn't a bad method of isolating a circuit because it stops some "well-meaning" occupant from just turning the switch back on.

Don't dismiss out of hand the chance of there being a fault in a cable somewhere causing the RCD trip, but equally I wouldn't be thinking about that as the most likely cause.

crispo99

@FreeBear thanks for the info, much appreciated
@[Deleted User] thanks and i agree £150 for 7 hours work is unbelievably good value, i would expect an experienced electrician to charge considerably more.  I'm not complaining about the hourly charge, i'm trying to assess the guys competency as after 7 hours and multiple youtube videos later he still wasn't able to resolve it

Owain_Moneysaver

crispo99 said:

• disconnected the lighting circuit (removed the wires from the fuse).  Unclear why he had to remove them instead of switching the fuse off

Switching off the MCB for that circuit only disconnects the Live side of the circuit as MCBs are single-pole devices. What the electrician should also have done is disconnect the Neutral from the neutral bar in the consumer unit. An RCD will trip on a neutral-earth leak, so switching off the MCB won't resolve that problem. 

Whether a SPD should be fitted to a domestic property is a bit of a vague question as it depends on the electrician's assessment. An elderly  person who would be greatly inconvenienced or put at risk by failure of wiring/equipment following a surge would be an indicator towards fitting SPD. 

The Screwfix BG consumer unit is the older type with the bottom hinged lid. The newer BG Fortress ones have a top hinged lid which falls closed by default. 

Risteard

BG is crap. Cheap Screwfix special. Use a proper brand such as Hager. I would certainly recommend the use of a Type 2 SPD. 

As above, neutral as well as phase needs to be disconnected. YouTube won't teach you anything. A proper spark would charge you double what you've paid for that length of time. (Whether they would have taken that time is difficult to answer as there may be an intermittent fault etc., but there's a chance the current boy knows nothing about fault-finding.)

Ectophile

It's possible to do a risk assessment to decide whether or not SPDs are really necessary.

If there's nothing electrical in the house that's actually worth anything, then there's no real point.  But many houses are full of expensive gadgets these days.

If you're in an urban area and all the mains wiring to your house is buried in the ground, then the odds of your house being hit by a surge are pretty slim anyway, and you may conclude that it's a waste of money.  It is over-ground wires on poles that are more likely to be affected.

mwarby

crispo99 said:

@FreeBear thanks for the info, much appreciated
@[Deleted User] thanks and i agree £150 for 7 hours work is unbelievably good value, i would expect an experienced electrician to charge considerably more.  I'm not complaining about the hourly charge, i'm trying to assess the guys competency as after 7 hours and multiple youtube videos later he still wasn't able to resolve it

Sounds too cheap to be an electrician to me, and resorting to youtube on site ? Sounds like at best a handyman who can do simple electrics

Finding which circuit is faulty isn't always easy, but shouldn't take 7 hours. Replacing the whole consumer unit seems a bit over the top, it might be a good upgrade, but sounds like clutching at straws.

If you do replace consumer unit go for RCBOs, that way only one circuit should trip in event of a fault. I was charged just over £300 to fix a Crabtree board with RCBOs  abot 18 months (no SPD needed at the time)

Risteard

Ectophile said:

It's possible to do a risk assessment to decide whether or not SPDs are really necessary.

If there's nothing electrical in the house that's actually worth anything, then there's no real point.  But many houses are full of expensive gadgets these days.

If you're in an urban area and all the mains wiring to your house is buried in the ground, then the odds of your house being hit by a surge are pretty slim anyway, and you may conclude that it's a waste of money.  It is over-ground wires on poles that are more likely to be affected.

Surges aren't solely to do with lighting (and Type 2 SPDs aren't for that purpose anyway). You need to consider switching surges etc.