No check in or inventory, can they deduct from deposit?

cats37

We have just moved out from our previous rented property where we didn't receive an inventory or check in document when we moved in. The agency sent me today a checkout report which compares the property to check in report done back in 2017 (we moved in last August). Now the agency "wants to discuss items before paying back the deposit ". Do they have grounds to deduct anything? Some items mentioned as missing in the checkout report were not even there when we moved in,  and scuffs on walls and other damages were already there, but obviously hadn't been there in 2017. We have even redecorated kitchen,  bathroom and living room with landlord's permission as they looked awful. 

diggingdude

just reply asking them why they are relying on a check report done prior to you moving in which has nothing to do with you

D.L

Not a chance if their only evidence is a report two years before you moved in.

Formally request full return of the deposit, then after 10 days raise a dispute with the protection scheme your deposit is held with. 

AdrianC

cats37 said:

Now the agency "wants to discuss items before paying back the deposit ". Do they have grounds to deduct anything?

They know they don't have a leg to stand on, which is why they want this "discussion". There is nothing to discuss. They cannot demonstrate the condition when you moved in, so they cannot compare the condition on your move-out to anything relevant. End of. Full deposit is due back. If they don't agree that, then the protection scheme arbitrators will.

akira181

As people have said, it's the agents responsibility to prove any damages were not there when you moved in; not for you to prove their claims wrong.  That means they need up-to-date documents from when you moved in.  Anything before that is not relevant.

I'm not sure about the redecoration though, LL's tend to want things looking neutral and it may be a clause in the contract to leave it in a neutral state.  Although you could say that you redecorated like for like and it would be difficult for them to prove otherwise.

They know they've messed up so I would just be civil, don't agree to any alleged damages and give them 10 working days to provide relevant proof or return your deposit in full.  

greatcrested

Have you caused any damage, left the property dirtier than when you moved in, or made any unauthorised changes? If yes, you owe for these. Though whether the landlord can prove this if you choose to lie and deny responsibility is a different question.

The LL cannot rely on an inspection report that pre-dates your tenancy. However he may have other evidence of the condition or colour scheme of the property when you moved in - the inventory is just the most common evidence relied on, not the only possible evidence.

cats37

greatcrested said:

Have you caused any damage, left the property dirtier than when you moved in, or made any unauthorised changes? If yes, you owe for these. Though whether the landlord can prove this if you choose to lie and deny responsibility is a different question.

The LL cannot rely on an inspection report that pre-dates your tenancy. However he may have other evidence of the condition or colour scheme of the property when you moved in - the inventory is just the most common evidence relied on, not the only possible evidence.

We haven't caused any damage,  when we redecorated we used light colours,  not bold ones as LL requested. We left the property clean, the checkout report says so as well. After redecoration we had an inspection visit when the lady from the agency took photos of the flat with new colours for the LL, we have never received any comment about that, she found no issues at the time, it was 2 months after we moved in.

cats37

akira181 said:

As people have said, it's the agents responsibility to prove any damages were not there when you moved in; not for you to prove their claims wrong.  That means they need up-to-date documents from when you moved in.  Anything before that is not relevant.

I'm not sure about the redecoration though, LL's tend to want things looking neutral and it may be a clause in the contract to leave it in a neutral state.  Although you could say that you redecorated like for like and it would be difficult for them to prove otherwise.

They know they've messed up so I would just be civil, don't agree to any alleged damages and give them 10 working days to provide relevant proof or return your deposit in full.  

The lady from the agency insists talking to me on the phone,  refuses to email me the concerns and just keeps pointing out to the checkout report. I find this very suspicious as well,  I want their discussion in writing to able to use it in my dispute. 

Shelldean

cats37 said:

akira181 said:

As people have said, it's the agents responsibility to prove any damages were not there when you moved in; not for you to prove their claims wrong.  That means they need up-to-date documents from when you moved in.  Anything before that is not relevant.

I'm not sure about the redecoration though, LL's tend to want things looking neutral and it may be a clause in the contract to leave it in a neutral state.  Although you could say that you redecorated like for like and it would be difficult for them to prove otherwise.

They know they've messed up so I would just be civil, don't agree to any alleged damages and give them 10 working days to provide relevant proof or return your deposit in full.  

The lady from the agency insists talking to me on the phone,  refuses to email me the concerns and just keeps pointing out to the checkout report. I find this very suspicious as well,  I want their discussion in writing to able to use it in my dispute. 

So call her at your convenience, and before she starts tell her the conversation will be recorded for you records!!!!

cats37

Update, I have spoken to the lady from the agency,  when I pointed out that I didn't see the reason why she wanted to discuss items as we never had a check in report she became speechless and had to look it up in the emails! She didn't seem to know when we had moved in either,  she just assumed the checkout report was compared to our check in report from 2017...didn't come across as very professional. Although we did discuss a few items, mostly damages that had already been there and items that hadn't been there upon our moving in, we are getting back the full deposit!