Vehicle broke down on private road and received PCN - do I mention breakdown in NTK appeal?

Bea37

I have read through the Newbie's thread and have just received the NTK (dated 33 days after PCN issued), so I apologise for posting this question if it is uneccessary. My PCN is from an IPC member, and I am about to appeal (using the template in the newbies forum) on their website as the 1st stage.

Do I just respond as the Keeper of the vehicle (online I will have to give my name and address which will match the DVLA obtained details), denying the 'parking charge' - or should I add that the driver of the vehicle had broken down and the car would not restart?

Background information: Half an hour after the photo on the PCN the car had been jump-started and moved and there was no ticket on the window...it was however discovered two weeks letter in the engine bay when the battery was changed - how it survived the bonnet being opened and closed so many times I will never know! I plan to use the breakdown, the unclear signage (the signage appears on the gates to flats, on the fence to an office car park - however new signage appeared in the last week at the entrance of the road stating that it is a private road), and obviously not name the driver. Even though from what I have read the appeal will be rejected, if (when) it progresses, should I have stated my reasons for challenging the PCN directly with the notice issuers as this will be my defence later on down the line. I know I am confused so I am asking for a little help, otherwise I shall just submit the first two paragraphs of the template:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as all your images of the vehicle.

 

I would like to know if I should add this?: The driver of the vehicle had broken down and came to a stop within a bay and found the battery to be flat. Upon checking the area around the bay, noting the absence of signage, deemed it safe so left the vehicle to seek help to restart the car. The car was restarted and vacated the bay by (I will insert the time here) – there was no ticket on the windscreen.

Any help would be appreciated.

NeilCr

Might be worth getting a statement from the person who helped you with the jump start. You might need it down the road (pardon the pun!)

Coupon-mad

I would like to know if I should add this?:
The driver of the vehicle had broken down and came to a stop within a bay and found the battery to be flat. Upon checking the area around the bay, noting the absence of signage, deemed it safe and unrestricted.  so left the vehicle to seek help to restart the car. The car was restarted and vacated the bay by (I will insert the time here) – there was no ticket on the windscreen.

The above is fine (change the above, no saying the driver ''left the car'').  Add proof of the breakdown if you have it.

 If there was no windscreen PCN then a NTK a month later can't hold you liable, so state that as well!

D_P_Dance

You would probably get away with this in a council car park, imo it is very unlikely in a private one.  Why did you not pay the fee?

CM there was a windscreen ticket.  How the OP was unaware of this puzzles me as he/she has said that the did not leave the car.  Furthermore the title mentions a private road but the text says it was in a bay.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

NeilCr

Quite possible to have bays on a private road. We are thinking of having a few on our road. 

It helps with delineating where parking is available. 

Bea37

Thanks for all the comments. I can try and fill in some of the missing information.

 The photo on the NTK shows a windscreen ticket but this had fallen off and was discovered about a week before the NTK arrived in the engine bay...it honestly had fallen off and was not visible when the car was jump started and moved.

 I have bays on my public road indicating which side of the road we can park. On the private road in question there are now double yellow lines opposite the bays which were not there at the time of the incident. Do not have proof of this now. 

The NTK and the sign state ‘not displaying a valid visitor scratchcard permit’...I could not have paid for parking as the nearby flats and offices are behind closed gates. This is partly my confusion as I thought the signs that were on the gates to the flats applied to their car parks. If there was a pay and display meter I would have used that.

inhave already approached the person who helped jump-start the car to make a witness statement if necessary and he had agreed.

once again, thank you all so much for your help....I am just running scared but my gut feeling is that I have not done anything wrong and I actually cannot afford to pay the fine at the moment....when it rains it pours!

Bea37

As an addition to the above, could I check with Coupon Mad - I am appealing to the NTK via their website. Should I mention I have a witness to prove the breakdown and do I name them as it was not a breakdown company but a kind person who had jump leads. Also should I upload photos taken that the signs appear to be for gated flats not for the bays on the road? As you can tell, I really am a newbie....but thank you for your help so far as I really do appreciate it and i may actually sleep tonight!

KeithP

It really doesn't matter what you say in the initial appeal.
It is widely believed that most PPCs don't bother to read appeals properly before refusing them.

The keeper can write what he/she likes without giving away the identity of the driver.

Coupon-mad

Just be careful not to write ''I'' or ''me'' and accidentally imply who parked.

Bea37

Just as a quick update. I have received a response from my online appeal. They sort of read it. So I suppose I ignore trying to appeal to IAS and then just wait for the debt collection letters and then the court letter. Its getting scary. Below is their response. Just one thing about the breakdown - I didn't go into specifics but it was a flat battery - it was completely dead therefore hazards were not working! Also, I checked to see the photos they had posted online...there are about 30 photos showing everything inside my car, all personal belongings and everything from the boot looking for items to restart the car - is this necessary to have so many photos of the interior?

''In response to your appeal regarding the issue of a parking charge 

Date of Appeal: (45 days after date they state PCN was issued and 4 days after NTK)

Date of Appeal Response: (25 days after date of appeal)

 Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN). 

Your appeal is outside of the time limits laid down by our trade association, The IPC and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. 

However, we have considered your appeal carefully and take note of the points you have raised in mitigation; however, we have decided that your appeal has been rejected on the following grounds. 

The signage at the site is clearly visible and the information on the signage informs the driver of the parking conditions at the location. Signage is prominent throughout the parking area. Signage location, size, content and font has been audited by the Independent Parking Committee. 

It is the driver’s responsibility to check for signage, check the legality and obtain any authorisation for parking before leaving their vehicle.

Your vehicle was observed at the time the parking charge notice was issued, when the operative could not see a valid permit displayed in the windscreen of the vehicle. The photographic evidence supports the issue of the parking charge. Please refer to the photographic evidence which can be viewed on www.payppm.co.uk which clearly shows no valid parking permit on display.

Having viewed the photographic evidence, your vehicle can be seen close to a sign stating the parking regulations.  Signage clearly states that parking is permitted for vehicles displaying a valid parking permit within the front windscreen and parked wholly within the confines of a marked bay appropriate for the permit on display; or,

Visiting vehicles parked fully within the confines of a marked visitor (V) bay and fully displaying a correctly completed visitor scratchcard, for upto 24 hours. 

The photos of this site (entrance photo included with this appeal) shows this is an entrance road to flats/businesses and is not a main thoroughfare.  Therefore, we cannot accept that your vehicle came to stop within a bay at least half way up this road.                                                  

 The vehicle is seen stationary and securely parked with no hazard lights on and therefore, the operative would not know the vehicle had broken down.

The photographic evidence also shows the PCN stuck to the windscreen at the time of issue.  We cannot be held responsible for its removal.

 

The parking charge was clearly advertised and you were in possession of all the information needed to make a decision. You chose to park. In our view, this act, by the appellant, constituted acceptance of the offer to pay the charge and formed a binding contract between the parties. It would follow that there was no inherent unfairness in the way this agreement was reached. 

 

The signs provide a Control Centre telephone number and a call to PPM’s office to explain the situation would have resolved the issue for you.

 

The best practice in this situation, if you cannot park in accordance with the parking regulations, is to park off site. Whilst we agree this may be inconvenient it will not result in a PCN being issued. 

 

The reasons you have put forward for parking in a clearly regulated parking area do not justify parking otherwise than in accordance with the restrictions. You will appreciate that everyone has what they regard as reasonable grounds for parking. The location is private land and as such there is a need to ensure that only vehicles conforming to the advertised restrictions can park on site. 

 

YOUR OPTIONS NOW ARE:

 

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice.  As you have made your appeal more than 14 days after the date of the issue of the PCN, the full amount of £100 per PCN will be outstanding. • You can pay by visiting the website www.payppm.co.uk   • By phone, calling 0207 100 2929.  Please have your debit/credit card details and the information in this letter to hand. • By post, sending a cheque or postal order made payable to Parking and Property Management Ltd to the address at the bottom of this letter.  Please ensure the PCN number is written on the reverse of the cheque.

 

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS).  The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure, you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal within 21 days of this rejection. To appeal, the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. For further information, please visit www.theias.org.

 

Ralph-y

did you expect any thing different ?

"there are about 30 photos showing everything inside my car, all personal belongings and everything from the boot looking for items to restart the car - is this necessary to have so many photos of the interior?"

keep the pictures as they may well come back to bite them .

god knows how all this will work out with the courts closing ....

there will be for coming forum advice so keep tuned...

Hopefully we have helped you. Please now help our NHS heroes by signing this petition.

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-hospital-staff-shouldn-t-have-to-pay-onsite-parking?source_location=petitions_browse

Ralph