Court of Protection

FinnR102000

Hi,

My Mam suffered a stroke and my brother has recently been appointed as Deputy (we went through an appalling Solicitor so it took over a year) for Property and Financial Affairs; I lived at home with her and paid board up until the stroke and due to the level of damage it did she had to move into permanent care in a Nursing Home.

She's paralysed down one side, is alert and responsive but with an indeterminate level of brain damage and cannot communicate verbally but she's happy most of the time, which is the only thing that has gotten us through this.

We've made sure she gets a visit from me, my Dad (they are seperated) or my brother every single day since it's happened, from the day she was admitted to hospital

We both work full time and visit on alternating days three days a week (I did four for the first year), my Dad officially doing one day a week but giving me lifts as I'm reliant on public transport and in practice visiting her several times a week as well.

I've bought things for her room (a TV and a fridge), I take flowers etc., (this wasn't intended to be in lieu of board but because I wasn't paying anything to her I wanted to do a bit more for her) and past visiting there's not very much we can do for her.

Due to my living there, the house was excluded from her Financial Assessment and the cost of her care is mostly met by the local council but they take all of her pension less £25 personal allowance.

The Court has told my brother I must pay full market rent on the property, which in addition to the bills may mean I can't afford to live there, after having lived there my whole life; I'm happy to pay the previous board I did which was less but either means it's more difficult for me to do what I can for her, any additional money will be taken by the council against the cost of her care anyway (double market rate wouldn't cover it) and so there'll never be anything more than an accounting profit there and if I move out the she'll ultimately lose the house anyway in a deferral scheme against it's value.

Apologies for the long backstory here but I'd appreciate any advice on this as to what the Court can insist on here?

Looking my brother is supposed to act in her best interests above all, and this isn't that and they can't compel a course of action and they cannot give legal or financial advice.

The market rate appears to be for show to a certain extent, I've seen in the OPG guidance for professional deputies there's an obligation to pursue debtors, including renters (obviously there was no formal agreement here, happy to pay the board if I must, less so that it would be to her expense, albeit indirectly) but I couldn't find an equivalent one for ordinary people.

I understand they could ultimately threaten to rescind his Deputyship if this is not done but it seems perverse that an entity to with a stated goal to support extremely vulnerable people should act in such a way at their expense and their families.

Thanks,

Ross

Rambosmum

Your brother has to act in your mothers best interest. It is in her best interest to rent the property for full market rent. Whether he can legally insist you pay pay that is another matter, but your brother can evict you. The risk is that if he doesn't charge you full market rent, the next time the LA does the financial assessment the potential rent will be taken in to consideration and your mother could be liable for paying more towards her care home fees and if you aren't paying market rent how is that portion going to be paid?

You need to seek some advice about your tenancy status but rent increases ARE legal. 

FinnR102000

Thanks Rambosmum - re the tenancy advice, to be honest I would never trust a solicitor but I suppose once the COP had their snout in the trough it was inevitable that things would become twisted.

FinnR102000

Sorry, should emphasise I appreciate your response and my Mam's wellbeing is our priority but this has ripped the open the wound of our having come terms with what's happened to her and doing what we can for her.

I have looked at other houses online if I'm forced to move out but I find my possibly being the reason she loses her house, on top of what she's alread lost quite heartbreaking.

I_Love_comps

What age are you and did you live with mother before she was taken into a care home and how long for. If you are over the age of 60 - there is something about not making someone move out of a property.  I have deputyship for my mother, but I had to sell her home to pay for Nursing Home fees

Keep_pedalling

FinnR102000 said:

Thanks Rambosmum - re the tenancy advice, to be honest I would never trust a solicitor but I suppose once the COP had their snout in the trough it was inevitable that things would become twisted.

That is a bit rich coming from someone who wants the rest of us to pay for their mother’s care, and wants to contribute nothing, despite having a the benefit of free / cheap accommodation in her house all your adult life.

FinnR102000

Keep_pedalling said:

FinnR102000 said:

Thanks Rambosmum - re the tenancy advice, to be honest I would never trust a solicitor but I suppose once the COP had their snout in the trough it was inevitable that things would become twisted.

That is a bit rich coming from someone who wants the rest of us to pay for their mother’s care, and wants to contribute nothing, despite having a the benefit of free / cheap accommodation in her house all your adult life.

Thank you for your useless ignorance, very helpful.

xylophone

Presumably your mother has been assessed for CHC funding?
https://www.justcaringlegal.co.uk/here-are-some-things-you-need-to-know-about-care/
Re relative aged over 60
https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/new-means-test-guidelines-for-property/

being the reason she loses her house, 

From what you have said, your mother will not be able to live at home again?

FinnR102000

I_Love_comps said:

What age are you and did you live with mother before she was taken into a care home and how long for. If you are over the age of 60 - there is something about not making someone move out of a property.  I have deputyship for my mother, but I had to sell her home to pay for Nursing Home fees

Thanks for this, I'm sorry not to have responded sooner but I'm quite worked up/worried about this so needed to take a step back.

It was my living in the house which took it out of the financial assessment for the local council but the Court don't do this in the same way; the useless solicitor we had told us that we'd definitely lose it and I was this close to moving out before we got the assessment back and now it feels like we're back to square one.

I'm sorry you had to sell your Mam's house; I find the fact that seems someone who has paid their way all their life will then to have to pay more again because the system we have just doesn't work rather sickening, as you may have gathered above; if we'd lost hers we would have had to lie to her the rest of her life about it and I suppose we now still might.

KxMx

I am sorry for the position you and your family finds yourselves in. It seems the CoP have decided having an asset not maximised to full potential isn't in your mother's best interest. Personal wishes rarely come into these things, if they did no one would ever pay for their own care and the system would break down quite quickly. 

suki1964

FinnR102000 said:

I_Love_comps said:

What age are you and did you live with mother before she was taken into a care home and how long for. If you are over the age of 60 - there is something about not making someone move out of a property.  I have deputyship for my mother, but I had to sell her home to pay for Nursing Home fees

Thanks for this, I'm sorry not to have responded sooner but I'm quite worked up/worried about this so needed to take a step back.

It was my living in the house which took it out of the financial assessment for the local council but the Court don't do this in the same way; the useless solicitor we had told us that we'd definitely lose it and I was this close to moving out before we got the assessment back and now it feels like we're back to square one.

I'm sorry you had to sell your Mam's house; I find the fact that seems someone who has paid their way all their life will then to have to pay more again because the system we have just doesn't work rather sickening, as you may have gathered above; if we'd lost hers we would have had to lie to her the rest of her life about it and I suppose we now still might.

Unless your mother had made preparations for her care, then her asset, being the house, has to be utilised, thats either selling it or getting the full market rent

Can you not take in a lodger?