Property not as advertised - advice please!

babyblade41

bouicca21 said:

As NewShadow says, the question is now whether that alley is a right of way, and if it is, who is entitled to use it?

The way I've read the last few posts from OP is that this area belongs to the houses at the rear .. even if access was allowed it could still become problematic.

There are certain issues I need to have when looking at a new property and won't ever compromise ...parking in particular is usually something that causes more problems than not 

Slinky

The particularly worrying thing is the OP says the current owner hasn't been exercising her right to access the property in a 5ft wide car. If she'd been parking there regularly without challenge that is one thing, but as she hasn't there could well be more of an issue raised by the other property owners if/when the OP starts trying to park there.  How long has the current owner owned the house?

ptgirl90

NewShadow said:

ptgirl90 said:

Doozergirl said:

It's not the actual parking space, just the access to it, yes? 

How wide is the actual access road?  Who owns the land?   How long have the vendors/previous owners been using it for?   Have you looked at the satellite history on the Google Earth app? 

Who is going to enforce the additional 20-30cm width of your car travelling along this piece of land?  

If you thought it was a bargain price for the area, it probably still is. My car is 6ft wide.  It wouldn't bother me.  

The access alley is owned mostly by houses who's gardens back onto it on the other side. The boundary for them comes past their back gates and covers most of the alley (except a 5ft wide part running next to the fence of the property we'd like).

So technically one day they could choose to use their rear parking, plonk their car in the alley on land they own and block us from getting past. 

The owner doesn't drive, she just said she was told by the previous owner that she could use the hard standing as a drive and there are double gates which suggest he had done so. 

Sorry - just to clarify... if the property has a vehicular right of access through the alley noted on the deeds - what makes you think the neighbours could park in the alley and block access?

They may own land, but if the property you are purchasing has right of access across the land, the owner of the land can't - legally - act in a way which prevents the owner of the property exercising their right. 

I'm struggling to visualise the arrangement as you've outlined it - any chance of a picture of the relevant section of the title deed showing the borders? *

Seconding the view this may or may not be an issue - depending on specific details which aren't yet apparent - and that the first thing to do is to figure out if it is an issue before deciding how to fix it. 


* ETA: alternatively, if it's easier, the exact wording on the deeds relating to the easement/right of access to clarify any limitations. 

akira181 said:

It's hard to get a full understanding of the area from your description, a link to google maps would be useful.  I find it strange that people have walled off the rear of their properties some distance before their actual boundaries, rendering that bit of land effectively useless.  Is that back alley used for anything in particular? 

The access alley behind my block of flats is used by bin lorries so it's usually always kept clear, although !!!!!! occasionally double park on the junction preventing the lorry from turning in and collection gets skipped.  If that alley is used for bin lorries, then it needs to be kept clear and possibly the deeds just not updated.

Basically the alley way is running between two rows of houses backing onto both sets of gardens. It's blocked by a house on the end so it's not a through road. The side I want to buy on (old victorian terrace side) doesn't own any of the alley, but has a 5ft right of way (deeds don't state vehicular or foot) but it's clear about it being 5ft from the boundary of the house (fence at back of garden). The houses opposite, much newer houses with drives out the front. Own the rest of the alley i.e everything except the 5ft and it's broken down into sections with everyone owning a little slice that backs onto their garden fence. So if they so choose to I guess they could all move their fences back and reclaim their extra garden because it wouldn't affect the 5ft right of way the terrace houses have. I doubt this would happen, but what they may choose to do is park on that little plot of land outside their back fence and then walk through the garden and access the house (or just walk around to the front door). None of them do this currently and the alley looks a tad over grown and unkept. 

We both still really like the property and there's a chance we would be able to use the hardstanding in the garden without issue... but we'd have to take that risk... i think an indemnity is 100% important if we decide to go ahead with the purchase but i can't work out how much money we should request off of the purchase price... not many houses have sold in the area in the last 10 years so it's hard to work out values, the last one was sold last year during the summer and went for 300k but it needed quite a bit of work... old couple, very old kitchen, ancient bathroom etc. But otherwise identical property in terms of size. Our one still needs work, will need a new bathroom and new kitchen but everything is not as old and run down, you could live in it but its incredibly dated. We've offered 350K which was the asking price. I'm debating 20k off the price... I did try look at garages in the area but there aren't any so I can't given use that as a guide for how much to take off the price...

OR we could just walk away..... and save the headache like lots of people are (probably quite rightly) are suggesting!!!

davidmcn

As queried above, if the current owner has never used it for vehicular access, when was it last used, and for how long was it used? And does the vendor have any handy evidence (affidavits etc) from previous owners to back this up?
It would be relatively easy to insure against if it's currently used and the vendor can confirm it has been for a long time, but I suspect more difficult to get insurance if nobody really knows when vehicular access was last used, as obviously starting it up again may ruffle some feathers.
If the alley is overgrown, does this mean nobody else currently uses it either?

diggingdude

I'm struggling to see your argument for money off here

NewShadow

ptgirl90 said:

Basically the alley way is running between two rows of houses backing onto both sets of gardens. It's blocked by a house on the end so it's not a through road. The side I want to buy on (old victorian terrace side) doesn't own any of the alley, but has a 5ft right of way (deeds don't state vehicular or foot) but it's clear about it being 5ft from the boundary of the house (fence at back of garden). The houses opposite, much newer houses with drives out the front. Own the rest of the alley i.e everything except the 5ft and it's broken down into sections with everyone owning a little slice that backs onto their garden fence. So if they so choose to I guess they could all move their fences back and reclaim their extra garden because it wouldn't affect the 5ft right of way the terrace houses have. I doubt this would happen, but what they may choose to do is park on that little plot of land outside their back fence and then walk through the garden and access the house (or just walk around to the front door). None of them do this currently and the alley looks a tad over grown and unkept. 

You mean something like this? With the path in red being the easement and the property you're considering purchasing being bordered in red... 


Please feel free to sketch up an alternative using MS paint: https://jspaint.app/

I'm still a little confused about what you've said is noted on the title... does it say the access 'starts at a point' 5' from the rear of your property, or is 'limited to' a 5' wide footway/carriage way - what's the exact wording and what's visually represented on the title. 

Plus - the questions which have been asked re the current usage of the alley and how long this property has been owned by the current, non-driving, resident - you've mentioned people could choose to park their cars out back but that assumes they currently use the alley for vehicle access... and surely, if parking is such a nightmare in the area, everyone further down the alley would benefit from a shared agreement cars shouldn't be parked in a way which blocks access... 

Of course, you're more than entitled to walk away - but given we still haven't established if there IS a problem with access... it seems a little premature? 

SmashedAvacado

i dont understand the 5 foot right of way point - most cars are presumably less than 5 feet wide? 

davidmcn

SmashedAvacado said:

i dont understand the 5 foot right of way point - most cars are presumably less than 5 feet wide? 

I think you'd struggle to find any cars on the market which are less than 5 feet wide.
5 feet is 1524mm, even a Fiat 500 is 1627mm wide.

NewShadow

It's amazing what you can find on google... https://www.automobiledimension.com/car-search-engine.php

Apparently there's a grand choice of three cars at less than 5': 

Either a Citroen c-zero & Peugeot ion at 1475mm wide - both 4-seat, and both 'reassuringly' expensive. 

Or the adorable Renault 'Twizy' at a compact 1234mm... described as an urban electric compact two-seater that is apparently "super fun to drive"  



Maybe not given the recent weather

davidmcn

Or if you want a classic option, ye olde Mini would fit (but not the phat 21st century version).