Holiday pay from agency (irregular hours).

General_Grant

HappyBirthday said:

General_Grant said:

HappyBirthday said:

Comms69 said:

HappyBirthday said:

Because just multiplying by 12.07% gives the wrong answer.

If you don't take any time off, then you need to multiply your gross pay by 12.07% / (100% + 12.07%) i.e. 10.77% to give the right answer.

Please feel free to provide an alternative calculation if you think mine is wrong.

Annual wage of £24,000 includes within that 5.6 weeks of paid time off. So you will receive gross per month £2k, whether working or on leave.

But that was not my question or scenario. My question is, using your figures, if the worker takes NO annual leave during the whole year, earns £24,000, how much extra do they get on top in cash in lieu of annual leave/holiday pay that was not taken.

You will see, again using your figures, that 5.6/52 weeks x £24000 = £2584.62 i.e. 10.77% of of £24,000

Now, do you get what I mean?

No need to do any calculation whatsoever.  The answer to your question is £NIL.

You may not be familiar with employment agencies. Holiday pay is paid in lieu of holidays not taken.

I would love to see your calculation since you told me mine was incorrect. Please furnish the forum with your alternative calculation. Thank you.

You quoted an excerpt from my response.
The answer is NIL because if you don't take holiday during the year, you don't get the holiday except in the circumstances I mentioned or if the employer agrees to pay.  They don't have to agree.  If they agree they can use whatever formula they like.  And you certainly don't get more time (ie more than circa 12.07%) just because you didn't take the holiday you had earned during the holiday year to which it related. 
And nobody else can understand your formula.
I think we are probably all out of this one now, certainly I am.

HappyBirthday

This thread is about holiday pay from employment agencies paid in lieu of actual taking leave. You have offered nothing constructive or on topic. You certainly haven't offered a calculation. If you are "certainly out of this one", then I don't think the thread will be any the poorer.

Offer a calculation.

Comms69

HappyBirthday said:

This thread is about holiday pay from employment agencies paid in lieu of actual taking leave. You have offered nothing constructive or on topic. You certainly haven't offered a calculation. If you are "certainly out of this one", then I don't think the thread will be any the poorer.

Offer a calculation.

I see what you're saying.

In answer to you're question, a salaried employee earning 24k, would get £nil extra. as @General_Grant said.
I cant see any reason why the agency would reduce the pay to 10.77%. 
Why would you not taking leave reduce the amount you'd get paid? I think that's the issue people are struggling to understand?

HappyBirthday

Comms69 said:

HappyBirthday said:

This thread is about holiday pay from employment agencies paid in lieu of actual taking leave. You have offered nothing constructive or on topic. You certainly haven't offered a calculation. If you are "certainly out of this one", then I don't think the thread will be any the poorer.

Offer a calculation.

I see what you're saying.

In answer to you're question, a salaried employee earning 24k, would get £nil extra. as @General_Grant said.
I cant see any reason why the agency would reduce the pay to 10.77%. 
Why would you not taking leave reduce the amount you'd get paid? I think that's the issue people are struggling to understand?

The 12.07% doesn't include the time actually taken off.

e.g. If employee A works for a temp agency for a year and takes 5.6 weeks holiday.

you can do the calculation two possible ways.

5.6 (holiday) / 46.4 (actual time worked ) = 12.07%

or

5.6 (holiday) / 52 (total employment time ) = 10.77%

BUT, when employee B DOESN'T take any holiday at all (like me), they will give you 10.77% of your total employment time or earnings as pay in lieu of holiday.

I think this is clear.

In my example above, employee B worked 5.6 weeks of holiday instead of taking them, therefore gets 5.6 weeks of pay in lieu of holiday. This is 10.77% of total length of employment and is also 10.77% of time actually worked.

I don't think I can be any clearer.

Comms69

HappyBirthday said:

Comms69 said:

HappyBirthday said:

This thread is about holiday pay from employment agencies paid in lieu of actual taking leave. You have offered nothing constructive or on topic. You certainly haven't offered a calculation. If you are "certainly out of this one", then I don't think the thread will be any the poorer.

Offer a calculation.

I see what you're saying.

In answer to you're question, a salaried employee earning 24k, would get £nil extra. as @General_Grant said.
I cant see any reason why the agency would reduce the pay to 10.77%. 
Why would you not taking leave reduce the amount you'd get paid? I think that's the issue people are struggling to understand?

The 12.07% doesn't include the time actually taken off.

e.g. If employee A works for a temp agency for a year and takes 5.6 weeks holiday.

you can do the calculation two possible ways.

5.6 (holiday) / 46.4 (actual time worked ) = 12.07%

or

5.6 (holiday) / 52 (total employment time ) = 10.77%

BUT, when employee B DOESN'T take any holiday at all (like me), they will give you 10.77% of your total employment time or earnings as pay in lieu of holiday.

I think this is clear.

In my example above, employee B worked 5.6 weeks of holiday instead of taking them, therefore gets 5.6 weeks of pay in lieu of holiday. This is 10.77% of total length of employment and is also 10.77% of time actually worked.

I don't think I can be any clearer.

Thanks for clearing that up. Here's why you're mistaken. and I now understand where the confusion comes from.

46.4 isnt the actual time worked as such, it's just the mechanism for working out percentage. 

IE regardless of if you work 12 weeks, or 1 day a week, or whatever. The calculation for the legal entitlement to holiday pay is 5.6 weeks, which is 12.07%. IE it cannot be less than that. It could be more. 

What they would be doing is unlawful. So i understand you're point, and why you've come to that conclusion, but it's not lawful

HappyBirthday

So how many weeks of pay in lieu of holiday does Employee B receive in my example above?

Comms69

HappyBirthday said:

So how many weeks of pay in lieu of holiday does Employee B receive in my example above?

this is where it gets complicated - technically as long as you can use your holiday, you simply lose it if you stay on. However if you leave on the final day you're entitled to the full 5.6 weeks. 

HappyBirthday

Comms69 said:

HappyBirthday said:

So how many weeks of pay in lieu of holiday does Employee B receive in my example above?

this is where it gets complicated - technically as long as you can use your holiday, you simply lose it if you stay on. However if you leave on the final day you're entitled to the full 5.6 weeks. 

Thanks for replying.

Are you able to offer a calculation based on my figures in my first post?

Comms69

HappyBirthday said:

Comms69 said:

HappyBirthday said:

So how many weeks of pay in lieu of holiday does Employee B receive in my example above?

this is where it gets complicated - technically as long as you can use your holiday, you simply lose it if you stay on. However if you leave on the final day you're entitled to the full 5.6 weeks. 

Thanks for replying.

Are you able to offer a calculation based on my figures in my first post?

426.98 hours @ £8.21 = £3505.51

99.23 hours @ 8.71 = £864.29

1 hour @ £10.21 = £10.21

well the baseline calculation is 12.07% as was mentioned. 
(5.6 / 46.4 *100. = 12.0689, rounded up 12.07%) = £528.67

There's obviously deductions from that for tax etc - without your taxcode it would be difficult to work out (in addition, you havent used up your allowance with those figures, but you may have had other employment). Broadly 28% off for deductions would give you £380.64

You seem to have received more than that. (but as i say the tax taken could well be zero; and it's just an NI deduction)

The key thing is takehome vs gross. I use gross as the default, as that's a steady number across the board. If you can provide some taxcode info that would help (as well as if you are on student loan & if so, plan 1 or 2)

HappyBirthday

Putting aside tax and NIC and focussing simply on the gross, (the tax and NIC was correct), the gross amount received was £490.20.