Court Claims for Leased Spot (but wrong driver named)

Deezo

Hi, I have been sent a Claim Form from Gladstones for a number of PCNs which they are now charging near £1000
I've read the Newbie section and think I know what my defence should be, but want to get a few ideas before I write (copy & amend!) the defence.
So I'll note down some info:
- The parking bay is rented from my building management, and I have the lease to show it (do I need to provide proof of payment too? It'll be wrapped up in my service charge I think):
- The parking does need a permit, which I had misplaced for a few months in 2019. I now have and display one.
- The claim is actually against my mothers name who is the named keeper of the vehicle. I drive it and am the main insurance holder (with multiple names on the insurance)
- There are multiple PCNs for a single day in the claim - and I'm pretty sure they haven't ticketed me for the same day ever
- The issue date is early Feb. I've acknowledge service but can someone clarify how much time I've still got? (lets say for example the claim came in on the 14th Feb - to keep from giving too much away)

 I'll most likely be quoting Pace v Mr Nand using the post by Johnersh as my base template (sorry cant paste links atm but both links from Newbie section), but since the claim is in my mums name, and the lease is for me, I'm not sure how to proceed. Should I go for the miss-named defence or should I go for the lease holder defence? I feel that the judge would see a lease holder as a stronger defence here? 

Thanks for the help in advance

Fruitcake

Please quote the actual date at the top of the claim form and the date you did the AoS. One of the regulars will give you precise target dates based on them. Do not approximate otherwise you will get incorrect information.

If the name on the claim is that of the keeper, then that is the person who must defend this unless the identity of the driver has already been provided to the scammers and scamlicitors.

Anyone can help the defendant, but it MUST all be done in the Defendant's name.

If the scammers have not complied with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 then a keeper defence is better, in which case your opening post needs to be amended to only talk about The Driver and The Keeper, at least at this stage. It depends whether a keeper defence is stronger than a primacy of contract (lease).

If the lease (as opposed to signage) says a permit must be displayed, then it is of no use as a defence point. If permits are not mentioned in the lease then it does help. 

Redx

As above , if it's mums mums on the claim form then she as defendant must defend it , not you , it's nothing to do with you , although YOU can assist HER 

Far too late for here to name the driver , should have been done before any court claim

The vehicle is in her name , so she could well be liable in law , if the PPC followed correct procedures and laws

Post the issue date from the claim form below , plus the date the AOS was done (in her name of course , not yours)

Is it ukcpm ?

D_P_Dance

Is this of help?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Deezo

Redx said:

Post the issue date from the claim form below , plus the date the AOS was done (in her name of course , not yours)
Is it ukcpm ?

Yep it is UKCPM. The date issue date at the top of the form is 12th Feb, and the AOS submitted 17th Feb (accepted 18th). All in her name, yes.

Fruitcake said:

If the scammers have not complied with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 then a keeper defence is better, in which case your opening post needs to be amended to only talk about The Driver and The Keeper, at least at this stage. It depends whether a keeper defence is stronger than a primacy of contract (lease).

If the lease (as opposed to signage) says a permit must be displayed, then it is of no use as a defence point. If permits are not mentioned in the lease then it does help. 

So the lease states the following:
"To observe any rules and regulations which the Licensor makes and notifies to the Licensee from time to time governing the Licensee's use of the Car Park. Including any rules and regulations displayed by way of signage which the Licensor deem necessary for the control or management of the car parking. Any breach of such rules or regulations by the Licensee shall be deemed to be a breach of the licence agreement"

It doesn't sound very specific to a permit but does it cover permit? 

As for PoFA 2012, I've just read about it, is this a blanket defence? What do I need to prove that they didn't adhere to the strict requirements? (Bearing in mind a lot of the PCNs and letters were sent to my mums house and we didn't keep a record of them).

Thanks

Castle

Redx said:

As above , if it's mums mums on the claim form then she as defendant must defend it , not you , it's nothing to do with you , although YOU can assist HER 

Far too late for here to name the driver , should have been done before any court claim

The vehicle is in her name , so she could well be liable in law , if the PPC followed correct procedures and laws

It sounds like although the Mother is the RK, the OP is the keeper for the purposes of POFA, as the vehicle is kept, insured and driven by the OP.

Redx

But the RK has received the court claim , not the OP

The RK can state that they are the RK but not the driver  and not the keeper either, if that is the case , then it's down to if UKCPM followed POFA or not (plus any other legal arguments as well , such as no landowner authority , poor signage , the CRA , right to peaceful enjoyment , no requirement to display a permit mentioned in the lease , etc)

Deezo

That's right, mother is RK, but I am driver and keeper, with insurance as main driver. So does that mean I/we use both arguements; not followed POFA and the rest as you mention? 
(plus any other legal arguments as well , such as no landowner authority , poor signage , the CRA , right to peaceful enjoyment , no requirement to display a permit mentioned in the lease , etc)

KeithP

Yep it is UKCPM. The date issue date at the top of the form is 12th Feb, and the AOS submitted 17th Feb (accepted 18th).

With a Claim Issue Date of 12th February, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 16th March 2020 to file your Defence.

That's nearly three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

1. Print your Defence.
   
2. Sign it and date it.
   
3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
   After filing your Defence, there is more to do...
   
   
7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.
   
8. Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track , and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou"]
   
9. The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.
   
10. Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant - to their address on your Claim Form.

NeilCr

When you say rented from the building management do you mean it was a separate transaction from buying the property?

Deezo

NeilCr said:

When you say rented from the building management do you mean it was a separate transaction from buying the property?

That's right yeah, I was put on a short waiting list after moving in, then had the opportunity to rent the space. 

I'm now a bit lost as to how my defence should look. I was going to use the lease as template but from advice given here I should try another angle. Are there any templates I can look at?