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Court Hearing - PCM - Parking in Residential Parking Space as Resident

FightingPCM
FightingPCM Posts: 23 Forumite
10 Posts First Anniversary
edited 15 February 2020 at 1:38PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Background
In the Summer of 2018, I received three Parking Ticket Charges in the space of 72 hours on a vehicle parked in the residential parking space for my tower block. The Vehicle is a Company Car Hire Vehicle, and I am one of the directors of this company. The Parking Charges were made every 24 hours (which was against PCM's own rules so I was able to get one of them struck out), and of the two left, one of them is made personally under my own name, and the other against my company. 

The plates of the vehicle were registered with Parking Control Management as a car that was allowed residential parking. I say this as previously there had been visitor parking tickets and residential parking tickets. In late 2017/early2018, the parking ticket allocation was changed and visitor parking tickets were scrapped, instead, everyone who applied was given a free residential parking ticket under their vehicle registration number. I applied for the new residential parking ticket but this never arrived - nonetheless on PCM's system they knew that the Vehicle under registration "XXX XXX" was registered under my property. By the time Summer 2018 came around, as I never received the free parking ticket I was entitled to, I had forgotten the visitor parking tickets had gone out of circulation and I parked my car with a visitor parking ticket which meant I got the above three parking charges for an invalid permit.

Currently
Gladstone's solicitors have been in contact with me. In the end, they have filed a claim with the court. I have filed an acknowledgement of service, defence and managed to move the claim away from Northampton Court to my local county court. In their witness statement, PCM have informed me that it is highly likely they will not attend the hearing. My hearing is in three weeks time and I am currently writing my witness statement. The cases for both parking tickets against both defendants (myself and my company) will be held together.

Issues
So that I can prepare for the hearing, I was wondering if anyone had any case law I can rely on at the hearing. 

My main issue is that I would not like to be personally liable for the parking ticket charge when the car is a car hire (and the car has been given back to the registered keeper). I would like to claim that that PCM, cannot make two different parking charges to two different defendant's in the same circumstances - they are responding with the fact that when appealing the parking tickets, I responded personally and thereby assumed responsibility. Is there any way I can combat this?

The lease on my property gives me an unqualified right to park, stating the following:
" (a) You must not park, leave or abandon on [The estate]'s land (including the parking and shared areas) any motor vehicle (or part of a vehicle) that is in an unroadworthy condition or untaxed (unless it is the subject of a valid Statutory Off Road Notice - SORN).
If you do we may remove and get rid of it. Before we do this, we will put a notice on the vehicle that we will give you 14 days to remove it. If the motor vehicle (or part) is in a dangerous condition, we may remove it without notice.
If we remove or get rid of a vehicle (or part of it), you must pay us any reasonable costs we have had to pay within four weeks of a written demand. Neither you, or any person living in or invited to your home, have the right to claim against us for any loss arising from us lawfully removing or getting rid of the vehicle (or part of it).
(b) You may only park motor vehicles on the property if there is a garage, parking space or hard standing with a (properly authorised) dropped kerb.
(c) You must only park in areas which are set aside for parking and you must not park any motor vehicles on the roads leading to or o the estate or on access ways to garages, if this causes a danger, a nuisance or annoys your neighbours or other residents on the estate. You must never park a motor vehicle in any place that obstructs access by emergency services. 
(d) You must get our permission before you, or anyone living in or invited to your home, parks any heavy-goods vehicle, public service vehicle, trade or commercial vehicle, caravan, boat or similar item on any land we own."
Are there any cases I can use that would support that my lease gives me primacy of contract, and I need not use a parking ticket on residential parking as a resident? PCM argues that by ordering a ticket and by using a visitor parking ticket, I accepted the terms of their contract.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Comments

  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,859 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    1) Was this 3 separate visits over the 72 hours.
    2) If the parking system changed in early 2018, how was the vehicle allowed to park for the period up to Summer 2018.without getting a ticket.
    3) Can you just confirm that the hire agreement is between the RK and your company?
  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,591 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Have you read this?

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html


    what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.


    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.



    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 15 February 2020 at 9:42PM
    Your lease has primacy of contract over anything the scammers say. There appears to be no mention of a permit scheme in your lease, and no mention that a scammer who not a party to the lease can issue charges or initiate court against a resident. I hope you included that in your defence. If not, you need to get it into your WS.

    What did the landowner/MA say when you complained to them? Have you told them you will be calling them/whoever employed the scammers as a witness?

    Have you seen a copy of the alleged contract yet? It must either be a single contract between the landowner and scammers or be a contract that flow from the landowner to the MA allowing them to employ scammers to scam, and another contract from the MA to the scammers.
    The landlord and tenant act may be of use as well. I believe that a ballot of at least 75% of residents with a majority in favour greater than 10% must have been carried out for the Ts and Cs of the lease to be varied. It cannot be changed otherwise without the agreement of both parties. 

    Don't forget to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • FightingPCM
    FightingPCM Posts: 23 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    edited 15 February 2020 at 11:34PM
    Castle said:
    1) Was this 3 separate visits over the 72 hours.
    2) If the parking system changed in early 2018, how was the vehicle allowed to park for the period up to Summer 2018.without getting a ticket.
    3) Can you just confirm that the hire agreement is between the RK and your company?
    1) Sorry correction, there were 4 visits, and yes this being 4 separate visits. Two of the tickets were cancelled when my housing authority got in touch with PCM, two of them have progressed to court. This is also why one ticket they're trying to hold me personally liable for, and the other, my company.
    2) I didn't park in the residential parking (not a fan of parking in bays!) and parked on a side road of my property (no ticket required there), but they are building a school next to me and so it was not possible to park there any longer.
    3) The hire agreement is between registered keeper and my company (but I am not the only director of the company, one of my family members is also a director)
  • D_P_Dance said:
    Have you read this?

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html


    what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.


    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.



    I have read the Parking Prankster blog and I'm interested on relying on Pace v Mr N, because like in the case, my lease does not show the parking to be qualified by the need of a parking ticket (part of the lease relating to parking up in my first post). While complaining to the MP seems like a great idea, I worry it's too late now as it's three weeks to the hearing! 
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    While complaining to the MP seems like a great idea, I worry it's too late now as it's three weeks to the hearing! 
    One thing is certain - if you don't complain to your MP, he/she won't be helping you.

    Also think of 'the greater good'.
    Parliament need to bombarded with details of pain and suffering, financial and otherwise, that this unregulated industry is inflicting on people.
  • Fruitcake said:
    Your lease has primacy of contract over anything the scammers say. There appears to be no mention of a permit scheme in your lease, and no mention that a scammer who not a party to the lease can issue charges or initiate court against a resident. I hope you included that in your defence. If not, you need to get it into your WS.

    What did the landowner/MA say when you complained to them? Have you told them you will be calling them/whoever employed the scammers as a witness?

    Have you seen a copy of the alleged contract yet? It must either be a single contract between the landowner and scammers or be a contract that flow from the landowner to the MA allowing them to employ scammers to scam, and another contract from the MA to the scammers.
    The landlord and tenant act may be of use as well. I believe that a ballot of at least 75% of residents with a majority in favour greater than 10% must have been carried out for the Ts and Cs of the lease to be varied. It cannot be changed otherwise without the agreement of both parties. 

    Don't forget to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I have included primacy of lease in my defence but I didn't add any exhibits to the defence - so I will be adding my tenancy agreement to the witness statement as an exhibit. 

    I haven't seen any copies of the contract - should I request it pre trial? Will it help with anything?
    I've also been looking at the LTA - the contract hasn't been varied through a ballot before allocating PCM to monitor our residential parking, we simply received a letter with an update on this.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,698 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I have included primacy of lease in my defence but I didn't add any exhibits to the defence - so I will be adding my tenancy agreement to the witness statement as an exhibit. 

    Quite right to do this, evidence goes with witness statement later in the process.

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