Won in court: East Midlands Airport / Vehicle Control Services (yet again!)

g0wfv

I'm a little panicked to be asking for the following on here, as I successfully defended a claim at the POPLA stage on behalf of my partner in 2015, so am fairly familiar with the process - read the newbies thread (noted post #2!), search for and read other EMA/Robin Hood/VCS threads etc etc.

This one is on behalf of my sister, and unfortunately I have only just become involved in the latter stages after court papers have been issued, her partner (RK) having admitted to the PPC who the driver was, appealing, arguing the toss with the PPC, ignoring all the debt collection and LBC stuff, and just generally not knowing about this fine forum and its sage advice.  Enter me who does (a little!) .....

From what she has said, she went to pick my nephew up from EMA, his plane was 10 minutes early, she was 10 minutes late, by which point he had walked down to the petrol station (can we all see where this is going?!)  She saw him, and pulled onto the forecourt having not seen the signs etc etc.  To his credit, my nephew opened the passenger door, informed my sister she couldn't pick him up there, closed the door and my sister drove off having had her attention drawn to the signs and not picked my nephew up.  She then circled around, pulled up at the petrol pumps and filled up (receipt has been retained!) at which point my nephew jumped in when my sister deemed it unsafe for him to walk back up to the proper pick up point.

The reason I stress above that she didn't pick anyone up before she actually did, is that her partner received 2 PCNs from VCS timestamped a minute apart. Fair cop, they thought, and payed one, but contested the other as can quite blatently be seen in an evidence video provided by VCS, she didn't pick anyone up once her attention was drawn to the prohibition on picking up.  VCS counter this saying that it was 2 periods of stopping therefore 2 PCNs - a little harsh imho!

I've been reading as many EMA/VCS threads as I can find, but the search invariably ends up going in circles.  I'm a little confused as to if the byelaws apply on the forecourt or not, if so, do VCS have authority to charge in this manner (surely it's a criminal matter, not civil?)  The court claim sin't for the criminal matter (how can it be?!) but for the more predictable "breach of contract" - so one defence point will be inadequate/unclear signage, contract neither offered correctly, nor accepted etc.

One thing is clear, VCS are rightly not relying on POFA as my sister's partner has already informed the PPC who the driver was and admitted to one PCN (ie paid it - tut tut!)

I now have no idea where to even start untangling this one to form a defence other than inadequate/unclear signage and the possibility of it being a vexacious attempt to extort money by claiming 2 separate charges a minute apart even though one period of stopping was when the signage was brought to her attention which she ultimitely comply with when she had digested the information (but she was still be charged?!), so I turn to those with more experience ...... HELP, please!

Obviously the original £60 is a write off, but I would like to see these vultures fended off in court and possibly see this come back to her in other ways!

Court papers issued 10 Feb and my sister has yet to acknowledge them I beleive. (I will be telling her to follow post #2 on the newbies thread as far as that goes!)

-- Tony

KeithP

g0wfv said:

Court papers issued 10 Feb and my sister has yet to acknowledge them I beleive. (I will be telling her to follow post #2 on the newbies thread as far as that goes!)

-- Tony

With a Claim Issue Date of 10th February, you have until Monday 2nd March to file an Acknowledgement of Service. If possible, do not file an AoS before 16th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou 

About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 16th March 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

1. Print your Defence.
   
2. Sign it and date it.
   
3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
   After filing your Defence, there is more to do...
   
   
7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.
   
8. Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track , and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou"]
   
9. The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.
   
10. Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant - to their address on your Claim Form.

g0wfv

Thanks Keith, info passed on to my sister ...

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for Airport defence Ransomes Jopson and find the one from 2019 that cited the Ransomes case to trump the dreadful VCS v Ward case.  Copy & adapt.
DO NOT use a different one.

g0wfv

Thanks, C-m - just to confirm, would that be sm1tt's defence? There is a lot thrown up on those search terms with you having referenced it so often ......!!

Coupon-mad

I've no idea, sorry, and am struggling with the loss of so many functions we used to have here, for searching, finding members, and posts.

g0wfv

Agreed, the search isn't the best .....
I doubt it is the one you refer to as it doesn't mention VCS v Ward or Ransomes / Jopson
I've found another defence by Ja99ie that you say is good, but it doesn't reference Ransomes / Jopson, so I doubt it is that one either - I've a nasty feeling that until someone can find it and you can identify it as the one you're referring to, it's going to be lost for a while!

I will continue to search for the other defence and have a read about VCS vs Ward!

D_P_Dance

Is the kand not covered by airport bye-laws?  Has the driver identified herself?

IMO anyone who drives a car should stop anywhere immediately if a red light come on.

Half_way

One thing that may be worth considering, is the difference between the driver stopped a vehicle to pick someone up/drop someone off

and..

An adult entered/exited the vehicle of their own choice, independent from the driver

g0wfv

I did consider that, H_w until I asked my sister to send me everything she had that could be used as evidence.

One item is a letter from VCS in reply to her appeal stating that they consider this 2 separate periods of stopping which got me to thinking....

That being the case, the second period of stopping when a pick up did occur is settled in that the PCN was paid. Consequently,  no mention of that PCN is made in the claim. That should remain the case. If it were to be brought up, I would defend it by saying that matter is settled, but served to show that this PPC are attempting to extort money with threats even though they have already been paid.

The video evidence provided by VCS to support their claim only shows the first incident where a vehicle pulls up, a pedestrian opens the door, talks to the driver, closes the door and walks away. No pick up occurs and the car drives off. The whole thing takes 16 seconds.

I have told my sister we need to make a trip to EMA to collect further evidence, as it seems there are other signs that differ on the site, but I am currently working on the assumption these say "NO PARKING" not "NO STOPPING". In any case, the original PCN alleges a pick up/drop off occurs, which is clearly not the case in their own video evidence!

Their own signs setting forth the contract under which they are claiming, an example of which has been is widely publicised in the media ...



... Use contradictory and confusing language (offers a contract that starts as soon as you enter the land, but simultaneously offers you a get out by leaving the land?) This is not only contradictory and confusing, but the former potentially fails under CRA15's list of unfair contract terms as stated in my initial stab at a defence for my Sister.

Anyway, we've got 4 weeks to work on this. I think I've found the thread C-m mentions above which I have since lost (I should be able to find it again though!) and have plenty of other reading to be getting on with.

Do keep the ideas coming though!

Half_way

Just driven into the petrol station at EMA as I need some petrol, 129.9,  didn't stop as its cheaper elsewhere, and I will fill up somewhere else.
Dashcam was running though, if I can find a way of uploading it, I might try later