Paying a tradesman up front for work - what is the norm here?

Lulu58

We have contracted a carpenter/joiner to build some cupboards and wardrobes for us.  We have made a couple of payments on account without quibble.  He now wants a final payment on the cupboards but they are not finished.  Also, the standard of work is not very good.  We have spoken to him about our concerns and asked him to rectify the issues and we will pay him.  He is refusing to complete the work until we pay him.  The work on the wardrobes is also unfinished.  He will not meet with us to discuss it.  Can anyone offer any guidance or advice?  

FreeBear

For smaller jobs (under £500 or so), I've always paid on completion. On the bigger jobs, the most recent being new windows, a 20% deposit and then the remainder on completion. Paying for a job in full before completion, nope.

Melanie1972

Totally agree with FreeBear.  No way would I pay the completion money until it's actually complete.  If you're not happy with the standard of work then you're right to even withhold some money if he had completed until your snags are resolved.  We had a guy fitting our doors who made mistakes on measuring up (then tried to charge us for the time (to fetch) and material (cost) of more wood), and also he put a nail through a gas pipe supplying the boiler that was running under the floorboards (resulting in our gas supply being isolated for 24 hours until an emergency plumber fixed it).  Total half wit.  If it wasn't for us having to collect the dog for a vet appointment, we wouldn't have caught them trying to abscond leaving the leak.  We could have been blown to smithereens.
When our guy was chasing for his money I laid out everything on a Word doc e.g. Your charge is 'X', 'Y' deducted because of ***, 'W' deducted because of ***, net total payable = Z.
Told him it was a fair calculation and that he was more than able to go through small claims if he thought I was being unreasonable.  Oddly enough when his faults were laid bare in black and white he took the money and ran!

TELLIT01

Put the issues in writing and make it clear that no further payments will be made until they are corrected.

viv0147

Don't pay the cowboy 

Lulu58

FreeBear said:

For smaller jobs (under £500 or so), I've always paid on completion. On the bigger jobs, the most recent being new windows, a 20% deposit and then the remainder on completion. Paying for a job in full before completion, nope.

With hindsight I think we should have agreed payment terms up front and in writing.  We have been incredibly niave it seems.

Lulu58

Heavens, Melanie 1972 that sounds like a nightmare.  I hope you got everything sorted in the end.

Lulu58

TELLIT01 said:

Put the issues in writing and make it clear that no further payments will be made until they are corrected.

We've done that, but he's saying he will not return to do the work and we need to get another tradesman.  We've paid some money in stages, but what we've got for it is useless as it stands.  We'd would probably have to get someone else in to start from scratch and would then be massively out of pocket unless we pursued it through the small claims court and I'm not sure I've got the energy for that. It's a mess!

Doozergirl

Lulu58 said:

TELLIT01 said:

Put the issues in writing and make it clear that no further payments will be made until they are corrected.

We've done that, but he's saying he will not return to do the work and we need to get another tradesman.  We've paid some money in stages, but what we've got for it is useless as it stands.  We'd would probably have to get someone else in to start from scratch and would then be massively out of pocket unless we pursued it through the small claims court and I'm not sure I've got the energy for that. It's a mess!

What do you have in writing/text/email in terms of a quote? Do you have his name and address?  Small claims isn't that bad, tbh.  

Better to get someone to finish it now than pay it all and then have to pay someone again.  Incertainly wouldn't pay for labour that hasn't taken place upfront.  There's no need.  

Dare I ask where you found him
and what homework you did on him? 

Can you post photos of the work? 

Mrs_Boo_Boo

My husband has been working as a self employed carpenter and joiner since 2003. He rarely needs to ask for any money upfront. Most materials are bought on account so he doesn't have to pay for them straight away. Money paid when a job is completed. 
Sounds very very dodgy. 

no1catman

Agree with the last comment. A tradesman can't be very good, if he hasn't made enough money from previous work to finance materials and living expenses. As others have said, a deposit of say 20% as an act of good faith - to secure the date, is not unreasonable. Anything more, and he is being unreasonable. If you pay - what proof do you have that he will finish the job, to his satisfaction, let alone your satisfaction. Isn't his 'reputation' worth doing a good job, with satisfied customers, or doesn't he care. Give Trading Standards a call - they may have an open file on him already!